I am opening this string based on a discussion that began in the Misc. Forum. I do not plan to continue with it, but invite others to do so.

firewall

Buffman
Interesting tactics! I am a but a brief visitor to the forum here. My original purpose was to reach out to a professed Christian who was asking for help.

Where did she ask for help from a fundamentalist Christian on a secular web?

As a follower of Christ, I responded. You are most likely a decent human being and would probably be fun to sit and coffee with.

Decency and fun tend to be in the mind of the participants.

It is not within my means to "convert" you, nor is it my place to try.

I suggest that you re-examine that statement in light of your belief system. It has an odor of hypocrisy.

In closing, about two thousand years ago a man, who was God on earth...

And your proof of this allegation is...? Your verifiable evidence is...?

...and a few others changed the lives of hundreds of millions of people.

Yes, Paul was very successful for a Semite.

He was rejected by his own people because He did not move to destroy Israel's enimies of the time.

What an interesting interpretation of the NT!

In the many years that followed His resurrection,

What resurrection?

many Christian's would be put to torture and death because they believed this.

Far more innocent humans have been put to death since because they didn't believe what these same Christians insisted that they must. Care to do a little historical homework.

http://www.truechristian.org/great_f...h/07fourth.htm

Some would be hanging as their bodies burned as lamps for a Roman ruler. Were these foolish people dangerous?

Not the dead ones. Only the living ones.

For myself, I choose to follow "foolishness.

It is certainly your choice to be superstitiously and supernaturally "foolish." It simply isn't mine.

The two commandments that the Lord has left with us were these: To love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and to love one another as you love yourself.

The "two" commandments? To which supernatural lord are you referring? (EX. 20 or 34; DEUT. 5; ROM. 13. I don't wish to have you accuse me of taking verses out of your interpretation of context. However, you might wish to explain LUKE 19:27 in relation to ROM. 13:9 and MARK 10:18 & 19, and all these other commandments. I'm sorry, but true believers are not permitted to pick and choose just the ones they like. In for a penny, in for a pound...unless you wish to use logic and reason concerning these so-called sacred texts.)

If I waste the remainder of my life trying to live by these simple statements, my life will have been as meaningful as any.

Might I suggest that if you merely attempt to live the "Golden Rule" type of life, you will be more apt to find the serenity and security you seek. (By-the-way, you do know where that saying was first promoted, don't you?)

God Bless.

Since I do not believe in supernatural beings or worlds, I will gladly accept your personal blessings. (Just send money!)

OK! Now I will attempt to tackle your second post.

firewall

Buffman
One last comment. Since your Genesis is so dog-eared and worn take a look at this. Among other things, the first seven days was the establishment of a new covenant.

Which first seven days? The first ones or the second? Did your supernatural entity mess up making the first covenant? With whom was that first covenant made? With whom the second one? Was the third one made with the Mormons?

Man was created and was to "replenish" the earth.

So every other living thing was only to "Be fruitful, and multiply." Only man was to "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish..." Replenish what? Were there an Adam and Eve before Adam and Eve?

Lucifer had already been created and fell to his own will and experienced the judgement of the created earth between the first and second sentences of Genesis.

Whoa, big fella! Specifically, from whence does that interpretation arise? And your evidence for this is....? The Bible says so? Who is this Lucifer chap? A fallen angel? The Bosses right hand flunky? Were his wings taken from him/her/it? Personally, I prefer Greek mythology. The serpents on Medusa's head didn't know how to talk to humans.

After man's creation and similar fall God chose not to destroy us...

Tell that to the people that drowned, or lived in S-G, or didn't accept the supernatural god of the Jews....or the modern era Christians.

but set the rules as it would be played out in response to the broken covenant. The first blood covenant was not the circumsision of the Abrahamic covenant, it was directed at Eve and Satan, then sealed by the blood of conception and childbirth. Genesis 3:15 was the first Messianic prophesy. The seed of this woman would eventually crush his head. Genesis 3:16 foretells how this Messiah would be born.

Oh, my goodness! So a talking snake, that eats dust, is somehow going to be made to suffer throughout all eternity by an all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing former friend. What a wild fable. I love it. Where is Hercules when you need him? That tricky Zeus is just a practical joker. (Whatever happened in your life for you to grab on to this kind of mindless nonsense to give a renewed purpose and meaning to your life must have been truly horrible.) How can I possibly reply to your remarks when they a pure make-believe?

To a virgin.

Just about every ancient group of fables has a story about "virgin" births. How is this one any different from the others? What proof do you offer that their virgin births didn't occur? Why is your group of campfire tales any more reliable than those of the other supernatural faith believers? "What are the facts...and to how many decimal places?"

If Jesus had been born any other way he would have not been blameless from the start as he would have broken the first of many covenants Matthew 1:25. Genesis 4:15 and 4:24 established the time frame for God's restoration for mankind (77 generations). Jesus was born 77 generations after Adam was created Luke 3: 23-38.

Prove it! You have not only taken the bait, but the hook, line and sinker as well. How can you possible consider yourself to be a logical and reasoning individual if you fail to appreciate that you can't use the information contained in one book to confirm the information in that book. Have you ever spent any time at all studying how that so-called inerrant book was generated? Obviously not! You are afraid of what you might discover/learn. I understand and appreciate that. That is one reason why I did not really wish to get into this discussion with you. You desperately "need" to believe. Why you need to believe is the real issue. I am not qualified to make that determination. I sincerely doubt that anyone, other than yourself, is qualified to make it. Therefore, I have no desire to rip the crutch out from under the structure you have created to satisfy these needs without being able to offer you something as strong or stronger to replace it.

The Mosaic covenant and the foreshadow of the Ark of the covenant and the earthly temple was fullfilled in John 20:11-12. This was a picture of the atonment cover of the Ark of the covenant. The two angels (cheribium) seated at the head and foot where the unblemished Lamb of God lay bleeding to atone for all mankind. Then, he would ascend to the most holy place as high priest as atonement for man once and for all John:20:17 and the book of Hebrews. These are my interpretations and have not heard another person state them. Whats your take?

My take? It is the vacuous, religious, gibberish of believers in the supernatural. Sorry about that! But I calls'm the way I sees'm. You have willingly, perhaps even eagerly, become an addict. Just as long as you keep your addiction to yourself, or share it with others just as addicted, I can do little more than wish you health, happiness an increased accurate , objective as possible, knowledge. I will not use the passages contained in an ancient book of myths to counter the arguments/statements arising from those same myths. Should you be able to provide me external, verifiable, evidence to support your contentions/assertions/interpretations, I would do my best to provide you a meaningful response.

Buffman
Lovely. Just lovely.
but you can still "rip the crutch out from under the structure he has created to satisfy those needs and be being able to offer him something as strong or stronger to replace it."
Give Firewall Logic. Give him reason
Meanwhile firewall, I am lying in wait. I am sure christ is watching. He'd love to know how his followers deal with infidels. He called them "vipers".
Reason bites like a viper. It spares no one. No belief. No myths.
listening...
listening...
listening...