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[This message has been edited by Chas2 (edited February 05, 2001).]

Okay, I'll play (I must be feeling playful though)

To the atheist/agnostic,

Don't let anyone patronize you like this. My understanding is that many of you have actually read the Bible for yourself!

This must be for me!

Yes.

Yes.

Don't know, but my Church teaches me that the answer is no, and that seems reasonable to me.

Yes, although this belief is rooted in a combination of Scripture and Church Tradition. It certainly cannot be proven conclusively from the the Bible alone.

Give me a break. Do you want to discuss this topic or not? If the answer is yes, don't be a twit, and be prepared to listen to well reasoned arguments that may actually be different from your own views, or even anything you have ever heard before.

Hmm... if the thread goes on like this for too long, I'm gonna go looking for my Troll whacking bat.

Need??? Excuse me sir, but exactly who the hell are you again? Calm down, and if you want to talk, be ready to listen.

You DID say no Biblical evidence for ANY of these propositions whatsoever right? If you say yes here, then this will be amusing at least.

Ummm.. gee... I never thought of this before. But since you bring it up, well then... let's see what you've got.

Question time. What ever made you think that Christians accept the Bible as their ONLY source of authority and truth? And what kind of Christians are you used to talking to?

Go figure. Enlighten us, and tell us what it DOES say then please.

I'm warning you Chas, I DO have a bat, and yes, I also know how to use it.

Drop the bullshit attitude, and be ready to talk to us little people (in other words those of us who are clearly no where near as well informed and inspired as you are).

Nomad

Nomad, you don't understand...

Chas1 gets a toaster oven if enough theists respond to this thread. Don't do it!

LOL! Alright, but what about this Chas2 guy? Is this just his wilder, but more lovable second cousin?

Nomad

Chas2, you wrote:

"To the Atheist/Agnostic:
I cannot help but think that you have all been give incorrect and misleading information about what the bible actually says. This is not your fault, since you are only going on what the "Christians" have been saying."

While not relevant to the header on your thread, I will respond to your first paragraph.

What makes you think that many or most atheists have not read the Bible and have not formed beliefs, at least in part on what has been read (among many other reasons) rather than what we have been told by theists?

Are you the ONE TRUE ATHEIST who has the scholarship that in your own mind we lack and can give us the ONE TRUE WORD of atheism in your humble opinion?

Why not just relax a bit, stop coming over as arrogent and self centred (and thinking that you are a legend in your own mind) and join the debate in a reasonable and honest manner, and stop thinking that the world of atheism revolves around you personally.

You are not the only person who can read. Trust me on this one.

Norm

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[This message has been edited by Chas2 (edited February 05, 2001).]

Ernest Sparks

OK, I'll bite.

---

1. That God Is a trinity composing the Father, Son & Holy Spirit?

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
First John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Gospel of John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Gospel of John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

2. That those who believe in God will live forever in Heaven?

Gospel of Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
First Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Gospel of John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

3. That those who do not accept Christ as their personal saviour will spend eternity in hell?

Gospel of Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Gospel of Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Gospel of Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Gospel of Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Gospel of Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Gospel of Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that from thence.

4. That hell is a place of eternal torment where sinners are tortured forever?

Gospel of Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jude 1:17 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

---

I believe none of the above. I am christian because the color for my country of birth on this old map indicates this is christian territory.

dufus numbskull




[This message has been edited by Ernest Sparks (edited February 04, 2001).]

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[This message has been edited by Chas2 (edited February 05, 2001).]

Ernest Sparks

Or was it a signature?

It was, m'dear, it was

some Ernest Dufus

I can answer this argument pretty well. I think it's pretty clear you have almost nothing to say here.


It's kind of hard to debate when all the posts are deleted.