Echo

James 2:19 tells us that even demons believe in the existence of the one God. Mark 1:24 tells us that the demons even recognize Jesus as "the Holy One of God".


Why do demons believe in God? If they are manifestations of evil, why do they not reject God to the point of denying his existence?

It we freely choose our beliefs, then it would seem that demons believe in the existence of God because they freely choose to believe. But if disbelief is "evil" and belief is "good", and demons are "evil" beings, why would they freely choose to do something good, such as accepting the existence of God?

Any thoughts from theists?

Marduk

I think the story goes that demons were once angles who rebelled against God by siding with Lucifer in some kind of mutiny in Heaven, so if they once lived in Heaven then they saw God personally and would have no reason to doubt him, the reason some demons are good is because God not only kicked out the bad angles but also those that would not fight against the bad guys (wishy washy wuss angles), or something like that.

Boshko

well I guess demons supposedly have had rather more extensive experiences with God then us atheists.

Echo

That's what I've always heard too...that demons have such extensive knowledge of God that they have no reason to doubt, and thus they do not doubt.

But theists sometimes tell us atheists that we also have no reason to doubt. Adequate evidence has been made available to us, so if we disbelieve, it is because we choose to disbelieve in the face of that evidence. Demons, however, have apparently chosen to believe and not to disbelieve. Yet, if they are evil, I'm wondering why they do this. Why do they do something that, to theists, would be considered a positive thing-that is, freely choosing to believe in God's existence.

Maybe believing in god's existence isn't such a positive thing after all, if even those beings who personify evil can do it.

(Of course, I'm assuming for the sake of argument that such critters exist)

Moderator: I'm wondering if I should have put this in the "Existence of God" folder. If you think it fits better there, by all means move it.

[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: Echo ]

Synaesthesia

Just because demons are evil does not mean they commit every evil act possible. Similarly, being a good person doesn't mean you'll do every perfectly good thing. (Unless you have the capability and desire to do them, as god does not have.)

Kyzra

as the story goes, demons are rebel angels who once lived in heaven.

so, they do not doubt the existance of god, they do however doubt most other characteristics of god: benevolence, justice, omni___, etc., after all, if heaven is such a perfect place, why would 1/3 (a heafty chunk by anyones standard) rebel?

and that's 1/3 of open rebellion. so the actual number of unsatisfied denizens of heaven would be closer to 45-55%, most of the balance being made of those too cowardly or too oppressed to actively rebel.

ecco

Belief does not equal worshipfulness or reverence, it is good to know your enemy. On the other hand if the demons really knew god they would have to know that he is all powerful, all knowing etc. If they know this, they must know that “resistance is futile”. It’s all very confusing. I guess that’s why I remain a dumb atheist.

Late_Cretaceous

Does that mean demons can be saved?

Can Satan be forgiven?

Should Satan's redemption be something to pray for?

DRFseven

I head a slightly different version. When I was about five years old, my father told me that Lucifer, himself, used to be God's right-hand-man. Only Lucifer got such a swelled head over his being the top aid to God that he started thinking he was as smart as God. Such gross insubordination could not, of course, be tolerated and God pushed Lucifer right out of heaven. I imagined God and Lucifer sitting on a swinging scaffold like construction workers use, suspended in the air, way up higher than the Empire State Building, with the scaffold rocking dangerously while God pushed at Lucifer. God naturally won and Lucifer plummeted to the ground. We had one of those huge bibles that had plates printed in green in the middle section with illustrations of some of the action and it showed a muscled-up Lucifer lying on the ground, trying to get up, with a sort of Roman toga on, scowling with rage and growing these short horns. I figured he must have just stayed down on the ground and crawled off to eventually become a snake, but retained the ability to talk, like princes who were turned into frogs.

Grumpy

Another twist on the story, perhaps from the Talmud (or maybe I imagined it), is that Lucifer refused to obey God's command to be subordinate to the new creation -- man. In this version, Lucifer loves God so dearly that he will not allow anything to come between them (even if God commands it). There may be some jealousy in there too, if Lucifer perceives humanity as a rival for God's affections. This provides a handy motivation for the tormenting of mortals.

As for demons, they would be fellow-travelers. They hate humans, and are ticked off at God for showing favoritism.