sighhswolf

Matt. 5:39-44
" Do not resist him who is evil...love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

A supposed quote from Jesus, who Christians relate as a pacifist and a non-violent
Godly being.

In Deut. 14:22-23, God had ordained the law that every male Jew should come to Jerusalem
at "Passover", to offer "the increase of your seed" and " the tithe of your corn,wine,and oil, and the first of your herd and flock".

To make a sacrifice to God, in the Temple.

Many Jews lived hundreds of miles away from
Jerusalem. So, according to Jewish law
(and being Jewish law would be also Gods law)
God gives an ordinance for those who must travel long distances to attend "Passover".

In Deut. 14:24-26, It was written that " and if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it (the actual physical
specimens of sacrifice) then you shall turn it into money. Bind up the money in your hand and go to the place the Lord your God chooses, and spend the money on whatever you desire, oxen, sheep, wine, strong drink, and you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice."

A celebration and offering to God.

Now according to the Hebrew teachings and law, in order to fulfill the divine commandment to exchange the monies brought from afar, the Temple itself , in ACCORDANCE
to BIBLICAL LAW, provided for the pilgrims the means to fulfill the above commandment.

The "money changers" and the "sellers of Doves", fulfilled an important part of the commandment, by allowing the pilgrims a place inside the Temple to make the exchanges
needed to make the sacrifices, and conform to the law.

Which leads us to Jesus and the disruption of the "passover".

Rabbis and Jewish scholars say that Jesus did not know or understand Jewish law or scripture.

He makes a scene at the Temple upon seeing the moneychangers, and badly misquotes scripture in the process.
In the course of the disruption Jesus uses a verse from Isaiah 56:6 as a condemnation of the activities of the temple.
Jesus interprets the verse to say that the Temple is a place for prayer..nothing else.

And based on this verse he begins to physically assault the people in the temple.
And engage in a violent outburst.
This man of peace, according to John 2:15
" ..made a scourge of cords and drove them out".
In other words this lunatic chased everyone in the temple out by whipping them with a "cord" that he had made for that purpose.

Reference to the first verse of scripture quoted in this post.

Isaiah 56:6 actually says, " Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on my altar. For my house will be called a house of prayer...FOR ALL NATIONS".

According to Jewish Rabbis, this verse relates to the coming of the "Messianic Age"
when all people even Gentiles, will come to the Temple to pray.
And that the Temple in Jerusalem will be acknowledged as the place for all who wish to pray to the God of Israel.

I for one cannot reconcile the acts of Jesus as portrayed here to be divine, or loving,
or even slightly considerate of those who he is supposedly teaching the ways of God.

In fact, it would seem to be an act of terrorism, running around with a whip beating people up. Not much divinity shown here.

Of course, the Jews were aware of some facts they point out about the so-called Messiah, that Christians seem to gloss over.

The Jewish Rabbis who stand in the face of Christianity and it's missionaries say that the character of Jesus being related in the scriptures as a pacifist and non-violent personality was and is dead wrong.

They point out that Jesus is quoted as saying,"Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but with a sword".

Christians will dismiss this verse with little thought, and as an analogy.
But, It is well documented that Simon Peter one of the disciples,was supposedly a fisherman.
Yet at the arrest of Jesus (as portrayed in John 18:2-11), Simon drew a sword and proceeded to whack off the right ear of the high priests slave.
Now that is pretty good sword play for a fisherman.

Judas Iscariot, according to the scribes, had a very terrible reputation.
"Iscariot" was a greek form of the Aramaic
word "Sicarii" which means a short sword or dagger.

The term "Sicarii" was not a name according to the hebrews, but a title used to describe the worst religious zealots of the time period who were known as "Assassins".

So as Christians, why do you believe that Jesus was a gentle, non-violent, teacher of Gods word.
Why do you dismiss verses in the KJV which point out the true nature of the man?
How can you believe that a person who misquotes scripture, could be a divine saviour of mankind?

And what makes you think that the Bible is translated in perfection?




[ July 15, 2001: Message edited by: sighhswolf ]as an footnote to the above post,
I would like to point out the information above is available online along with many
other critical analysis of Jesus at "Messiahtruth.com"

[ July 15, 2001: Message edited by: sighhswolf ]

Marduk

I allways liked this particular Jesus story, he was a populist, fighting the elite, corrupt church in league with Rome, condeming the way that the Preists had created a religion complete with dumb rules, fees, silly hats, opulent temple, a wealthy powerful preistly class, pointless animal sacrifice etc. His way was love your neighbor & God, you don't need these silly guys with hats to talk to God, and God doesn't really need to smell a burning dead cow.

aikido7

[Q]...So as Christians, why do you believe that Jesus was a gentle, non-violent, teacher of Gods word.
Why do you dismiss verses in the KJV which point out the true nature of the man?
How can you believe that a person who misquotes scripture, could be a divine saviour of mankind?

And what makes you think that the Bible is translated in perfection? [/Q]

We will never find Jesus' "true nature." The first roadblock standing in our way is the New Testament itself. It is certainly not history or biography--at least not in the 21st century sense. It is infused not with theology as such but with "theologies," all shaped by first-century circumstance and ancient cultural baggage. Overlayed on top of all that is all the subsequent interpretations of the texts. Some interpretations pay closer attention to context and cultural history than other interpretations, but some seem to use a "fortune cookie" method of picking out several cookies, cracking them open, reading the verses ("fortunes") and linking them up in some system which may be useful, but is actually misguided and immature.

"Divine savior" is a term placed upon Jesus after his crucifixion. The man never claimed the title for himself as far as we know. This dose of reality is bitter medicine for any fundamentalist or evangelical who has no interest in comparing a long tradition of biblical scholarship to the vacant proof-texting which comes from the Sunday pulpit and the television fund raisers posing as moral leaders.

Vorkosigan

I've always assumed this story was pure invention. It occurs in different places in the Synoptics and in John. It reads like a fantasy of some oppressed peasant; pure compensation -- look how the monied get their comeuppance! I can maybe buy Jesus and a few disciples getting into the Temple business area, but getting out again after trashing the place? No way! These guys are changing money and they don't have their own muscle -- never mind the Temple Guard? Doesn't make any sense.

Michael

M

sighhswolf

The actual physical event is really not important in itself.

In my own mind, this story is one among
others that point to the character traits
of the Son of Man. (this is how he refered to himself, right?) No he never refered to himself as the "messiah".

I think whats important is the fact that the clergy, for the most part, do not present these traits along with the standard view of the "Prince of Peace".

In bible study classes, the image of Jesus was constantly driven into the brains of the students.

They projected an image of perfection.
They said that Jesus exemplified Love,
peace,forgiveness,honesty,compassion,self control, calmness.......etc.

The problem is that Biblical texts show another side of his character, that Christianity would rather not discuss.

It is very telling that in John 18:19-21
When asked by the high priest about the doctrine he was teaching, he said he never taught anything in secret.
He said he had always taught in the synagogue and the temple.

That statement was an out and out lie!
He told a falsehood, he engaged in deceptive practices.

I cant understand why christians would have faith in a so-called "Messiah", who actually
utters lies and engages in deception.

It seems that the propensity to engage in deceptive and misleading practices was a fact
of early Christianity.

If you were given the Bible to read, not knowing anything about Christianity, you would see that to get across a message, none
of the Biblical characters were above lies,
and deception even God himself.

And if I were to read the following statement
I would never trust any Christians.
Paul says in Romans 3:17," If through my LIES Gods truth abounds to his glory, why am I being condemned as a sinner"?

These little statements are not part of the average christians bible study because they do point out the abundance of deception throughout the early history of Christianity.

Jesus was not exempt from the group engaged in the production of misinformation.

offa

"Jesus Wept."
That is the shortest verse in the bible. It is about Jesus ordering the release of Simon Magus (Lazarus) from his imprisonment in a cave near Qumran. The reason Jesus wept was because with this action he declared himself a sicari (as were Simon Magus and Judas Iscariot). Magus up until this time was the chief priest at Qumran (a code name for Qumran was Galilee and the chief priest there was known as "father" as opposed to the high priest in Jerusalem known as "GOD").
Jesus' plan to rid Palestine of Roman rule was not to pay taxes (overturning the moneychangers tables). Ghandi read about Jesus Christ and understood this message and the way he wrested away the British control was this message. If you quit working (strike) then there will be no money to pay taxes with).
Jesus' best friend at that time was Lazarus and this Lazarus was involved in a protest where a Roman soldier was killed. Judas Iscariot was also involved in this same incident. These two zealots went against Jesus' advice of a peaceful revolt.

My source is Jesus and the Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I do have resources that I can quote. Nobody has yet told me where to find the part about Jesus' feet being pierced nor have they found me a virgin that was not a Hebrew.

thanks,
offa