SingleDad

According to (pick your version of) the bible, is faith in God a choice? Or is it granted (through "Grace") by God? If it is granted by God, is it granted to everyone? Leading back to the question, do we have the choice to reject that choice.

Again, according to your bible, if we do have a choice, on what basis does the bible expect us to make that choice?

As befitting this forum, I would prefer to focus on the textual testimony to determine what the various bibles actually say, while leaving the larger ethical/epistemological issues to a companion thread in Existence of God(s).

As my scholarly failings are well known and readily admitted, I probably won't contribute much here.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: SingleDad ]

dmvprof

Pr.16:4
"The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."


Kindof makes you think that he made some wicked people....

But then


1 Tim.2:3-4
"God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved."

and again

2 Pet.3:9
"The Lord is ... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


This kindof makes you think that everyone has a chance of getting in.

Flip a coin I guess....

[ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: dmvprof ]

big d

At my seminary where the Calvinists and Puritan worshippers had run amok:
TEXT: EPH. 1, 3-6.
"Blessed be God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved

No choice says the Bible! So it's not my fault!



[ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: big d ]

Thunder

SingleDad,
I'd love to give you a response here, however, before I do I would like to know how you approach Biblical doctrine, whether systematically or individually.

Systematically would mean that you would take the totality of the scriptures on the subject, each originally interpreted in its own context and the used as a whole to develop a doctrine of freedom.

Individually would mean that we find one scripture given its own context and stop. Find another in a different context which gives an additional perspective from another context and then cry "contradiction!"

You have earned my respect from the other forums in which we have briefly interacted, however, I don't know how you approach Biblical theology and related issues.

Will you be responding from a systemic or individual perspective? I'd enjoy being a part of a systemic argument. I've no interest to play pick-your-verse theology.

Thunder

SingleDad

How do I approach biblical doctrine? I'm an atheist and a nonscholar. I'm exploring the philosophical implications of the two possibilities in Existence of God(s). Here, I'm interested in seeing the scholars' and theologians' interpretations of the christian bible(s) and possibly the Quran.

I probably won't be responding at all, just watching. My interest, talent and expertise in historical and theological biblical interpretation is miniscule. I really only chime in in this forum when I see the fundamental rules of evidence badly abused.

Thunder

Interesting. What subject are you a scholar in? With this type of reasoning you would not get involved in any thread.

Thunder

SingleDad

I'm not a scholar or a scientist in the sense of making strong evidentiary cases for specific propositions.

Professionally, I'm an engineer and salesman; by avocation a logician and a dilettante philosopher.