Hey gang!

I came across this in a web search. These historians are supposed to have mentioned Christ, therefore validating that he existed out side of the Bible. (whether he's man or god is another issue!)

Thallus (c. 50-75AD)

*Phlegon (First century)

* Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews, c.93)

* Letter from Pliny the Younger to Trajan (c. 110)

* Tacitus (Annals, c.115-120)

* Suetonius (Lives of the Caesars, c. 125)

* Galen (various writings, c.150)

* Celsus (True Discourse, c.170).

* Mara Bar Serapion (pre-200?)

* Talmudic References( written after 300 CE, but some refs probably go back to eyewitnesses)

*Lucian (Second century)

*Numenius (Second cent.)

*Galerius (Second Cent.)

I have only heard of Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus, & Suetonius. Out of those 4 I discount one because the historian uses a very common Roman name. (my notes are at home so bear with me!)

Regardless of that or whether we agree on the historical Christ, has anyone heard of these other historians? Better yet, what they said? If someone could point me to some books I'd appreciate it. The maker of the webpage I got them from has yet to respond!

A side note...I feel historically there might have been a Christ. Regarding his divinity is where I have my doubts!

Thanks!

-T

Toto

Hey Thomas - this identical list was posted recently and thoroughly torn to pieces. We can't keep going around this again. There are no contemporaneous historical accounts of Jesus outside the gospels. If there were, there would be no mythicist argument.

I wasn't seeking a debate on the historical proof. Keeping true to my doubting nature I want the documents!



Do you have a url to the list? Guess I'm behind the bellcurve or missed this one.
Was this an infidel discussion?

Thanks

-T

Toto

http://www.infidels.org/electronic/f...ML/000190.html

The list (or something like it) was posted by Metacrock and debunked by Ulrich, and debated after that.

I found this with the search engine. You might want to investigate it.

Lance

The thing you might want to keep in mind here is that many of these are many decades if not a century or more after the so-called historical event.

What most of us are looking for is historians close in time who can confirm it. Its highly likely many of these sources got their information from the same 3-5 sources we argue about all the time.

Think about this...
If there were other "proof" of Jesus as the Christ or even Jesus, leader of the apostles, then the Catholic Church would have already been in possession of it and been placing it on a pedestal for all to see and thereby believe and convert... UNLESS they have books, manuscripts etc that talk about Jesus that does not purport the same message of deity, stories of the Gospels, or other important church doctrine. In which case they are just sitting on it or they were purposefully destroyed many centuries ago.

Now I purpose this...

That if in fact, Jesus was God and the Gospels were right, then other books, manuscripts, etc would have been written in or around that time as this is just to big of an event not to have any other documents reporting such. Which would mean that the Catholic Church does possess said writings and they would have to conflict horribly with the rest of the Bible as carved out and published by the church; or in fact, there are no other documents that exist because Jesus never existed.

Lance

Another thing you have to ask your self "why" is the fact that so much was lost in the timeframe the church had control?

Why was no evidence better than evidence?

The answer should be obvious, even to a simpleton.

First, I really just wanted evidence to counter that list. Second, I really wasn't attempting to debate HIS historical existance.

I operate on Sagan's credo which paraphrased basically states: "too much skepticism can hinder progress." And, I never claimed to be a historian though a "simpleton" I am not.

Insult aside...

Hey Toto, thanks for the link to the url. That's exactly the info. I was hoping someone would point me to. Now I must digest it.

I threw my back out so the less time I have to spend typing on this cursed key board the better!



-T