Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Echo · 11-06-2001, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nerv111:
So, how do YOU know which Zechariahs it is referring to?

Oh, and I would love to see you try and tackle some of the biblical absurdities. And please give an explanation other than “God works in mysterious ways” or “it’s a metaphor”; frankly they are getting old.

And, please answer me this… it has been bothering me for a while now. Who exactly was the father of Joseph? Jacob (Mt.19:12) or Heli (Luke 3:23)?

Hey, I've got it! We can solve the geneology contradiction by using the same explanation JesusFreak used for the Zechariah question.

The two geneologies don't match because they are talking about two different Jesuses!

After all, there were lots of people back then with the name Yeshua (or some variation thereof).

Boy, this is easy!

Boro Nut · 11-06-2001, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jesus Freak:
Contradiction? I don't think so!

Oh yes you do!

doc58 · 11-06-2001, 10:30 AM

The answer to the differing geneologies in Matthew and Luke is obvious. I will take credit for being the first to think of it in all history.
The name in Matthew is the persons first name. The name in Luke is the persons middle name. Jesus father was named Jacob Heli.
Isn't that simple? You see Matthew was writing to Jews who always used first names and Luke was writing to Greeks who liked to use middle names.
<Lest you think I am serious--tongue in cheek-but no more absurd than inerrantists explanantions of many verses.

Someone7 · 11-06-2001, 11:18 AM

What did the sign over Jesus's head say?

Matthew: "THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS."

Mark: "THE KING OF THE JEWS."

Luke: "THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS."

John: "JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS".

I've never heard a rationalization for this one before, should be interesting.

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Someone7 ]

ThomasCassidy · 11-06-2001, 11:21 AM

Zechariahs: It seems obvious to me that several OT personalities went by the same name, just as today several people have the same name. Here is a partial list of the (possibly) different people going by the name Zechariah(s).

A Benjamite 1Chron 9:35, 37
A Levite porter and counselor 1Chron 9:21, 22
A Levite musician during the reign of David 1Chron 15:18, 20, 24
A Kohathite Levite 1Chron 24:25
A Meraite Levite 1Chron 26;10
A Manassite chief 1Chron 24:25
A son of King Jehoshaphat 2Chron 21:2-4
Son of Jehoiada killed in the temple 2Chron 24:20-22
Prophet in Uzziah's reign 2Chron 26:5
The King of Israel and last of the dynasty of Jehu 2Kings 15:8-12
A man of the family of Perez Neh 11:4
A man of the family of Shelah Neh 11:5
A son of Bebai Ezra 8:11

It seems a little silly to me to suggest all of these were the same man. In my family alone we have 3 Bills, 2 Geralds, 2 Thomases, 4 Ruths, etc.

ThomasCassidy · 11-06-2001, 11:25 AM

The answer to the differing geneologies in Matthew and Luke seems obvious to me. If we read the entire geneology we see there are more differences than merely Joseph being the "Son" of more than one man. I suspect it is the geneology of Mary, the wife of Joseph, and Joseph is lised using the generic word which simply means "belonging to" and can mean son, grandson, nephew, or son-in-law. In this case, I suspect the geneology is that of Mary, and that Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli.

ThomasCassidy · 11-06-2001, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Someone7:
What did the sign over Jesus's head say?

THIS IS JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. Matthew.
THIS IS JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.Mark.
THIS IS JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke.
THIS IS JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. John.

They all seem to be saying the same thing!

daemon · 11-06-2001, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ThomasCassidy:
[misquotes not repeated]
They all seem to be saying the same thing!

Certainly, if you rewrite them. However, as they are written, they do not agree.

Mageth · 11-06-2001, 12:29 PM

Why would a writer include the maternal genealogy of Jesus, since Israel was a patriarchal society? All rights/status came through the paternal line, correct? AFAIK, every other lineage in the bible is patriarchal - why the exception?

brighid · 11-06-2001, 12:37 PM

The exception is because Jesus can't fulfill the prophecy through his adoptive father Joseph - ie no genetic material from his daddy and therefore another geneology had to be attributed to make up for this mess!

Brighid

11-06-2001, 11:21 AM	#15
ThomasCassidy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 33	Zechariahs: It seems obvious to me that several OT personalities went by the same name, just as today several people have the same name. Here is a partial list of the (possibly) different people going by the name Zechariah(s). A Benjamite 1Chron 9:35, 37 A Levite porter and counselor 1Chron 9:21, 22 A Levite musician during the reign of David 1Chron 15:18, 20, 24 A Kohathite Levite 1Chron 24:25 A Meraite Levite 1Chron 26;10 A Manassite chief 1Chron 24:25 A son of King Jehoshaphat 2Chron 21:2-4 Son of Jehoiada killed in the temple 2Chron 24:20-22 Prophet in Uzziah's reign 2Chron 26:5 The King of Israel and last of the dynasty of Jehu 2Kings 15:8-12 A man of the family of Perez Neh 11:4 A man of the family of Shelah Neh 11:5 A son of Bebai Ezra 8:11 It seems a little silly to me to suggest all of these were the same man. In my family alone we have 3 Bills, 2 Geralds, 2 Thomases, 4 Ruths, etc.

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11-06-2001, 10:30 AM	#13
doc58 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 101	The answer to the differing geneologies in Matthew and Luke is obvious. I will take credit for being the first to think of it in all history. The name in Matthew is the persons first name. The name in Luke is the persons middle name. Jesus father was named Jacob Heli. Isn't that simple? You see Matthew was writing to Jews who always used first names and Luke was writing to Greeks who liked to use middle names. <Lest you think I am serious--tongue in cheek-but no more absurd than inerrantists explanantions of many verses.

11-06-2001, 11:18 AM	#14
Someone7 Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 376	What did the sign over Jesus's head say? Matthew: "THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS." Mark: "THE KING OF THE JEWS." Luke: "THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS." John: "JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS". I've never heard a rationalization for this one before, should be interesting. [ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Someone7 ]

11-06-2001, 11:25 AM	#16
ThomasCassidy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 33	The answer to the differing geneologies in Matthew and Luke seems obvious to me. If we read the entire geneology we see there are more differences than merely Joseph being the "Son" of more than one man. I suspect it is the geneology of Mary, the wife of Joseph, and Joseph is lised using the generic word which simply means "belonging to" and can mean son, grandson, nephew, or son-in-law. In this case, I suspect the geneology is that of Mary, and that Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli.

11-06-2001, 12:29 PM	#19
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Why would a writer include the maternal genealogy of Jesus, since Israel was a patriarchal society? All rights/status came through the paternal line, correct? AFAIK, every other lineage in the bible is patriarchal - why the exception?

11-06-2001, 12:37 PM	#20
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	The exception is because Jesus can't fulfill the prophecy through his adoptive father Joseph - ie no genetic material from his daddy and therefore another geneology had to be attributed to make up for this mess! Brighid

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