We all have so many reasons for rejecting Christianity for some of it's evils alone. But what about Christianity/the Bible do you dislike the most? For me it is the fact that the Christian god will send a person to hell if it 'sins' or is an atheist. What kind of "loving" creator would do this? Of course some Christians argue that 'hell' isn't what we usually assosciate with, but then again the Bible is open to so many views of interpretation.

It has to be the blind suspension of reason with regard to the natural world.

When the evidence for evolution, plate tectonics, continuous habitation (i.e., no Flood), etc. is so strong, christians continue to pull the plug on their brains and run on auto-pilot.

Any religion is guily of no respect of the natural world. I should have clarified my question more efficiently, but what about the Christian doctrine itself do you not like? IE the cruel god, the Jesus stories, etc.

In that case, it would have to be the binary nature of the christian situation.

* They have the truth; all others are deceived.
* They know the way, everyone else is lost.
* They talk to God; everyone else is talking to an impersonating demon.

And, of course, different christian sects will accuse each other of being lost. So how do you tell them apart, without a scorecard?

In a world where spectrums of gray seem to be the rule, rather than the exception, they set up an false dichotomy that is contrary to every other experience in life.

For me it's the fact that either way, whether Christianity is true or false the situation would be appalling. Were Christianity true all kinds of people would wind up in hell, and non-rehabilitative punishment of this sort would have to disturb those peace-loving souls in heaven. Were Christianity false, all kinds of people would have wasted their lives and killed or died for no good reason. Either way absurdity results and we get a bitter taste of cosmic indifference, whether from God who gives up on billions of his children, leaving them to everlasting pain, or from a mindless universe that doesn't care if or how we survive.




[This message has been edited by Earl (edited April 21, 2001).]

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It has to be the blind suspension of reason with regard to the natural world.
When the evidence for evolution, plate tectonics, continuous habitation (i.e., no Flood), etc. is so strong, christians continue to pull the plug on their brains and run on auto-pilot.

Hilarius
What makes you think the majority of Christians don't accept evolution ... have you been brain-washed by fundamentalists?

Originally posted by Omnedon1:
It has to be the blind suspension of reason with regard to the natural world.

Hilarius
Give one example please.

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Any religion is guily of no respect of the natural world.

Hilarius
As a Christian I have total respect for the natural world, given that it all required a first cause, unless you believe the natural world invented itself. What makes you think Christians don't respect the natural world?

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I should have clarified my question more efficiently,

Hilarius
We all make mistakes! You are forgiven :--)

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but what about the Christian doctrine itself do you not like? IE the cruel god, the Jesus stories, etc.

Hilarius
What cruel God? Would it not have been more cruel to ignore that which harms people?

What is your problem with the Jesus stories?

Are these your own ideas or are you simply regurgitating Sec Web mantras?

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In that case, it would have to be the binary nature of the christian situation.

* They have the truth; all others are deceived.

Hilarius
I do not hold that to be the case, nor do most mature Christians ... but are you saying there are no deceived people in the world?

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* They know the way, everyone else is lost.

Hilarius
Again that is not the mature Christian view. Christ said "I have other sheep who are not of this flock". You want the chapter and verse reference for this or do you prefer to live with your prejudice?

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* They talk to God; everyone else is talking to an impersonating demon.

Hilarius
What is your source for this absurd proposition?

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And, of course, different christian sects will accuse each other of being lost. So how do you tell them apart, without a scorecard?

Hilarius
Did you know there is a clear scorecard called the Nicene Creed? Do you know what it says?

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In a world where spectrums of gray seem to be the rule, rather than the exception, they set up an false dichotomy that is contrary to every other experience in life.

Hilarius
Seems to me you are the one who has set up the false dichtomy. Why are you trying to drive a wedge between Christians and non-Christians?

Earl
Secular Web Regular
For me it's the fact that either way, whether Christianity is true or false the situation would be appalling. Were Christianity true all kinds of people would wind up in hell, and non-rehabilitative punishment of this sort would have to disturb those peace-loving souls in heaven.

Hilarius
What is the punishment involved in being separated from a God you have chosen to hate throughout your earthly life. Surely such a choice of separation should be pleasing?

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Were Christianity false, all kinds of people would have wasted their lives and killed or died for no good reason.

Hilarius
I hope you are not suggesting Christian teachings leading to wasted lives or killing?

Earl
Either way absurdity results and we get a bitter taste of cosmic indifference, whether from God who gives up on billions of his children, leaving them to everlasting pain, or from a mindless universe that doesn't care if or how we survive.

Hilarius
Where is your evidence that God gave up? So soon after Easter you speak of God giving up? What did Christ ask for those who do not know they do? If you need a clue it is a word beginning with F and ending in ness

Blessings and Peace

Hilarius

Actually, the Gallup polls indicate that the majority of Americans believe that Genesis is literally true. In Europe, I am sure it is different. But fundamentalism has a very strong hold in America (and in Australia).


I already gave three. Wake up, Hilarius.

1. the evidence for evolution,
2. plate tectonics,
3. continuous habitation (i.e., no Flood), etc.

That appears to be your position only, and I think your co-religionists would disagree with your characterization of them as not mature.

Most christians I know are pretty straightforward in their insistence that "I am the way, the truth and the life; no man cometh to the Father, but by me".

Perhaps you should take it up with them, Hillary?


Yes, and most of them are christians.


Oh, I know the verse; don't trouble yourself.

But since it stands alone without further explanation or additional supporting verses, its meaning it not clear. As expected, all sorts of groups have jumped on it as a justification for their beliefs:

a. it refers to people who died before Christ, who were moral, but not sinless;

b. it refers to Christ coming multiple times to different societies, in order for God to be impartial in sending a Saviour to as many people as possible;

c. it refers to intelligent life on other planets who also need salvation, since God cares about all life wherever it is found;

d. it refers to North American Indians and Africans who never heard about Christ, but had a general belief in one God and tried to live the best they could;

The list of bizarre explanations is endless.


Most Pentecostal and charismatic churches believe that other gods, deities, etc. are demonic counterfeits. Bob Larson is an excellent example of this type of belief.


1. It is only clear to YOU - others would say that it is incomplete.
2. It does not necessarily address the issues that separate the various denominations.
3. Yes, I know what it says - it still does not prevent various denominations from accusing each other of being lost. Your rebuttal is totally busted.


Thou shalt not bear false witness, Hillary.

I did not set up the dichotomy; I merely force you to focus on it.

* They have the truth; all others are deceived.
They know the way, everyone else is lost.

The entire world save for a rather small amount of Atheists is in the grips of superstitious belief about gods and angels.

They talk to God; everyone else is talking to an impersonating demon.

Most of the world prays (in some fashion or another) to something that doesn't exist; human beings sing hymns to a God who isn't there. The Atheist community (a very small percentage of humanity, actually) rejects these practices because on the whole they are more reasonable and do not engage in superstitious activities. The Atheists know better than to praise invisible pink unicorns.

In a world where spectrums of gray seem to be the rule, rather than the exception, they set up an false dichotomy that is contrary to every other experience in life

I definitely have to go with the evils God promotes. If you have to have one hell of a moral blindspot not to see that Christain God tells people to be racist, sexist, homophobic, kill people who don't believe as you do. Of course Christains who promote these values will say the Bible tells me so, they'll qoute a verse, you go to look it up, and sure enough there's the verse telling you to bash the heads of little children in.

Of course, there are Christains who say God really doesn't promote these values. They should read their Bible more.