Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Adam · 10-31-2012, 02:51 PM

In my #53 I explained that 200 CE cannot precede 90 CE. You now understand this.
In my #53 I explained internal criticism. You apparently can only conceive of external criticism. (Or did you stop reading before you reached my second paragraph in #53?) If you accept only external criticism, you would therefore accept that Matthew wrote gMatthew, Mark with the assistance of Peter wrote gMark, Luke wrote gLuke, and John wrote John. Is this your position?

"Not correctly" does not give me any help in what you want to know about the extent and date of sources. Which of my major posts in Gospel Eyewitnesses have you read? Any?

You should have stopped after you wrote the word "stop". You say you want to continue discussing Andrew. You first need to show that you are capable of discussing internal criticism about Andrew. Or is your closed-mindedness due to you already knowing who wrote the Signs Gospel?

outhouse · 10-31-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my #53 I explained that 200 CE cannot precede 90 CE. You now understand this

it doesnt, I never said that

you mistook what I stated about the mur canon for Gjohn

you have no justification for andrew, nor have you presented any other case, only a misinterpretation shesh and I pointed out

Adam · 10-31-2012, 03:55 PM

Well then, here's a larger slice from my Post #18 in Gospel Eyewitnesses, but with the sentence about the Muratorian Canon removed. So now deal with this evidence. (You can't ignore these sentences when I have removed the only sentence you previously seemed to notice. Do you deliberately mislead or do you have a reading comprehension problem?)

Quote:

The latter at this point was a Signs gospel, consisting of the Signs plus the Passion Narrative, neither of which had any input from Peter. Both these portions had similar style (but not exact) either because the Signs translator made some stylistic changes in the Passion Narrative or because the two translators had similar Greek style.
The Signs Source according to W. Nicol is John 1:35-51;xx. 2:1-11;xx. 4:1-9,x. 16-19,v. 27-30,x. 40,ii. 43-54;x. 5:1-9;x. 6:16-25;xv. 9:1-2,iv. 6-7;vii. 11:1-6,vii. 11-17,vii. 33-44;xv. 12:1-8,xii. 12-15.v. I would agree with Howard M. Teeple in The Literary Origin of the Gospel of John in ascribing some individual verses within the above to the later Editor and in adding to the Signs Source John 6:1-15,xx. Teeple recognizes as his source “S” basically what I attribute above to the Signs Source in John 1 to 12 and the Passion Narrative in John 18 and 19.
Not necessarily disclosing the author, but largely related to this section of John is the name “Andrew” at John 1:40, 41, 44; 6:8; 12:22(2)..... As a further note I would add that the first occurrence of each name at John 12:22 is shown by Teeple as from the source, so should not be used to claim that the name “Andrew” is not associated exclusively with the Signs Source, even though it falls outside the sections more conclusively identified as Signs Source. Andrew is the second identifiable eyewitness.

Gospel Eyewitnesses, see Post #18

Sheshbazzar · 10-31-2012, 05:07 PM

As you may recall Adam, I asked you if you were a Christian?

I see that you have finally deigned to give a substantial answer to a question that you should have been able reply to in all of 3 seconds, by simply typing Y E S.

So you are, after this long delay, now willing to claim;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm a Baptized in the Spirit Christian

Is that correct Adam?

.

Adam · 10-31-2012, 09:02 PM

Y E S

Sheshbazzar · 10-31-2012, 09:15 PM

Would you say that you are 'filled with the Holy Spirit', Adam?

Adam · 11-01-2012, 09:53 AM

Not so much. The denomination I'm in now (ELCA) is favorable to the Charismatic Renewal, but it's not central among us. We don't have weekly prayer meetings here.

Sheshbazzar · 11-01-2012, 11:54 AM

Do you believe that the disciples were actually 'filled with the Holy Spirit' Adam?

Adam · 11-01-2012, 03:33 PM

Starting at Pentecost, yes.

Sheshbazzar · 11-01-2012, 04:21 PM

and when did this end Adam ?

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10-31-2012, 02:51 PM	#61
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	In my #53 I explained that 200 CE cannot precede 90 CE. You now understand this. In my #53 I explained internal criticism. You apparently can only conceive of external criticism. (Or did you stop reading before you reached my second paragraph in #53?) If you accept only external criticism, you would therefore accept that Matthew wrote gMatthew, Mark with the assistance of Peter wrote gMark, Luke wrote gLuke, and John wrote John. Is this your position? "Not correctly" does not give me any help in what you want to know about the extent and date of sources. Which of my major posts in Gospel Eyewitnesses have you read? Any? You should have stopped after you wrote the word "stop". You say you want to continue discussing Andrew. You first need to show that you are capable of discussing internal criticism about Andrew. Or is your closed-mindedness due to you already knowing who wrote the Signs Gospel?

10-31-2012, 09:02 PM	#65
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	Y E S

10-31-2012, 09:15 PM	#66
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Would you say that you are 'filled with the Holy Spirit', Adam?

11-01-2012, 09:53 AM	#67
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	Not so much. The denomination I'm in now (ELCA) is favorable to the Charismatic Renewal, but it's not central among us. We don't have weekly prayer meetings here.

11-01-2012, 11:54 AM	#68
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Do you believe that the disciples were actually 'filled with the Holy Spirit' Adam?

11-01-2012, 03:33 PM	#69
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	Starting at Pentecost, yes.

11-01-2012, 04:21 PM	#70
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	and when did this end Adam ?

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