CodeMason

There is no definition of "ape" or "dog" or "turtle" or "human". They are meaningless constructs of your own perception. Nonsense has no place in science.

You Betcha

I said I have heard of them.

Ape-- including the family of gorillas, orangutan and chimpanzees

human-- one possessing in high degree the qualities considered distinctive of a man; a created being made in the image of God

hyzer

Dear Mr. You Betcha:

Can you tell me where I can see that image of god? I want to see it too! Tell me, where I can go to compare man's image against god's?

Thanks,

Hyzer

P.S. I really want to know!
P.P.S. Hey - you said that a "human" can be defined as having the qualities of "man." Wow - great definition!!!

Dr Rick

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This part of the definition is circular and akin to defining an "automobile" as a thing possessing in high degree the qualities considered distinctive of a car.

This part is idiosyncratic; it is not how biologists or physicians define humans.

Queen of Swords

What exactly are the "qualities considered distinctive of a man"? Are there different qualities distinctive of a woman? By this definition of "human", were Neanderthals human?

You Betcha

Neanderthals are human.

A higher consciousness is a quality considered distinctive of man or woman, mankind.

Mageth

Show me the fossils of the ancestors of turtles. The previous examples were merely turtles as we have always known them.

From <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/3550/evolve.html" target="_blank">this site:</a>

Turtles first appeared on the earth around 200 million years ago, during the Triassic Period. The first known turtle was Proganochelys quenstedi. Proganochelys lived during the late Triassic Period. It had a fully developed shell and a turtle-like skull and beak. However, Proganochelys had several primitive features not found in turtles today. These traits included small teeth in its mouth, a clavicle, and a simple ear. These early turtles were also unable to withdraw their head or legs into their shell.

So this ancestor of present-day turtles is not a "turtle as we have always known them."

Here's another page with a lot of technical information on new theories in turtle evolution: <a href="http://www.mad-cow.org/00/mar00_turtle.html" target="_blank">turtle prions</a>. It includes ancestral trees of the turtle, noting their common ancestor shared with crocodilians.

A quote:

The phylogenetic analyses further suggested that turtles are a sister group of the archosaurs, and this untraditional relationship was provided with strong statistical evidence by both the bootstrap and the Kishino-Hasegawa tests. This is the first statistically significant molecular phylogeny on the placement of turtles relative to the archosaurs and lepidosaurs. It is therefore likely that turtles originated from a Permian-Triassic archosauromorph ancestor with two pairs of temporal fenestrae behind the skull orbit that were subsequently lost. The traditional classification of turtles in the Anapsida may thus need to be reconsidered.

Forgive me if either of these links have been previously posted here.

You Betcha

You are just describing a different type of turtle. Perhaps the original created turtle that all other turtles came from.

hyzer

Dear Mr. You Betcha:

How do you know that Neanderthals possessed a higher consciousness so that they are to be considered, by your definition, human?

Thanks,

hyzer

Mageth

The earth was not the same as it is now. Now it is 70% underwater with less habitable terrain. Before, there was much more habitable area and much more plant life. The evidence is the amount of coal and oil.

Your false conjecture would acutally allow for the support of fewer animals and plants on earth. The oceans support far more life per square mile of surface area than land.

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>