Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Zenaphobe · 01-06-2003, 07:48 PM

I have been reading about hermaphroditeism for research and noticed in a social context, hermaphrodites were considered sacred by many cultures.

The sometimes held honored positions and were consulted in spiritual matters.

What would be a Christian position on hermaphrodites?

Could they be ordained?

Could they get married?

Would they be allowed to "teach" or would they be under subjection to the male leadership?

Any thoughts?

seebs · 01-06-2003, 07:51 PM

I have no idea; I don't think the question is ever addressed. I would say "they're people, whatever", but then, I'm not a big fan of gender divisions.

Bree · 01-06-2003, 10:09 PM

Somehow, I don't think they'd be revered in our society. In the past, people who were born with both "sets" were forced to undergo surgery at birth to decide their gender for them, which often resulted in problems later on in life (when their surgically decided gender turned out to be the opposite of the person's feelings on the subject).

01-06-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zenaphobe
I have been reading about hermaphroditeism for research and noticed in a social context, hermaphrodites were considered sacred by many cultures.

Any thoughts?

That is because they are without a sin nature!

That is, all of us were created as androgyne in the image of God and our sexuality was created later by Lord God and therefore is our sexuality merely a condition of being with less substance than we sometimes think.

Ut · 01-07-2003, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree
Somehow, I don't think they'd be revered in our society. In the past, people who were born with both "sets" were forced to undergo surgery at birth to decide their gender for them, which often resulted in problems later on in life (when their surgically decided gender turned out to be the opposite of the person's feelings on the subject).

"In the past", "were".

I would not be so sure about that. You might find it interesting to read the following statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics: Evaluation of the Newborn With Developmental Anomalies of the External Genitalia

Taken from that document (emphasis mine):

Quote:

TIMING OF SURGERY

Infants raised as girls will usually require clitoral reduction which, with current techniques, will result not only in a normal-looking vulva but preservation of a functional clitoris. In girls with CAH, surgery can usually be performed once hormone replacement therapy is begun. A low-lying vagina can be exteriorized at the initial surgery, but in other cases this is best deferred until 1 year of age and often later. Additional surgery is often necessary. The testes should be removed soon after birth in infants with partial androgen insensitivity or testicular dysgenesis in whom a very small phallus mandates a female sex of rearing. In boys, an undescended testis that is to be retained is best brought down into the scrotum at the time of initial gonadal biopsy. Correction of chordee and urethroplasty in boys with hypospadias is usually performed between 6 and 18 months of age, usually in 1 stage as an outpatient procedure.

So, ma'am, we're "reducing" your clitoris so that it will look "normal". Whether it will result in reduced sensitivity and pleasurability is not even discussed and you instead have the blanket assurance that you will keep a "functional clitoris" (whatever this is supposed to mean).

What do doctors find so hard about leaving the genitals of babies alone?

abe smith · 01-08-2003, 06:59 AM

Interestingly enough, the Jews recognise(d) and dealt w/ the actual fact of the existence of human hermaphrodites & of other gender-mixed human persons. (You could look up the subject in um the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA.)
I don't know how they (orthodox Jews) bring this into line w/ the *Genesis* assertion (by theHoly One Hisself, blessed be He):
"male & female created He them..."

and/but (if I remember what I read about it cursorily & some time since) their decision is that such curiosa shd be dealt w/ individually & eh, rationally. Give them rabbis credit!

Zenaphobe · 01-08-2003, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the intrest in the topic, I was really hoping that there would be some Christian view as to ordination and marraige brought to bear as well.

I realize genital mutalation is an aweful thing, but I am hoping that the topic wont get siderailed into a debate about the ethics of gender determination.

Cheers

cfgauss · 01-08-2003, 08:51 PM

What's the problem with bringing this in line with genesis? It clearly says, after all, "male *and* female he created them"

.

01-06-2003, 07:48 PM	#1
Zenaphobe Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the NC trailer park Posts: 6,631	Hermaphrodites and Christianity I have been reading about hermaphroditeism for research and noticed in a social context, hermaphrodites were considered sacred by many cultures. The sometimes held honored positions and were consulted in spiritual matters. What would be a Christian position on hermaphrodites? Could they be ordained? Could they get married? Would they be allowed to "teach" or would they be under subjection to the male leadership? Any thoughts?

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01-06-2003, 07:51 PM	#2
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	I have no idea; I don't think the question is ever addressed. I would say "they're people, whatever", but then, I'm not a big fan of gender divisions.

01-06-2003, 10:09 PM	#3
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Somehow, I don't think they'd be revered in our society. In the past, people who were born with both "sets" were forced to undergo surgery at birth to decide their gender for them, which often resulted in problems later on in life (when their surgically decided gender turned out to be the opposite of the person's feelings on the subject).

01-08-2003, 06:59 AM	#6
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Interestingly enough, the Jews recognise(d) and dealt w/ the actual fact of the existence of human hermaphrodites & of other gender-mixed human persons. (You could look up the subject in um the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA.) I don't know how they (orthodox Jews) bring this into line w/ the Genesis assertion (by theHoly One Hisself, blessed be He): "male & female created He them..." and/but (if I remember what I read about it cursorily & some time since) their decision is that such curiosa shd be dealt w/ individually & eh, rationally. Give them rabbis credit!

01-08-2003, 07:00 PM	#7
Zenaphobe Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the NC trailer park Posts: 6,631	Thanks for the intrest in the topic, I was really hoping that there would be some Christian view as to ordination and marraige brought to bear as well. I realize genital mutalation is an aweful thing, but I am hoping that the topic wont get siderailed into a debate about the ethics of gender determination. Cheers

01-08-2003, 08:51 PM	#8
cfgauss Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: USA Posts: 108	What's the problem with bringing this in line with genesis? It clearly says, after all, "male and female he created them" .

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