mhc

This is petty, but then, what isn't?
I wonder if the phrase "begging the question" has acceptable philosophical currency as meaning "the question is begging to be asked" as opposed to (what I understand to be) the actual meaning of the phrase, which refers to the logical misstep in which the conclusion of an argument is assumed within that argument's premises.
I hear the first usage more and more often, even in philosophical discourse, and am wondering about its current state of acceptability in the philosophical community.
Any opinions?

Godless Wonder

http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-beg1.htm

I have wondered the same thing. Taking the words literally, I came to the conclusion that most of the time, the phrase is used incorrectly. (Whether I'm correct about that, I don't know.)

From Bert and Ernie:

Bert: Why do you have a banana in your ear?
Ernie: To keep away the alligators.
Bert: But there aren't any alligators around here.
Ernie: See how well itt's working?

Correct usage would be to say:

Ernie is "begging the question" "is the banana really what's keeping the alligators away?"

In more direct words:

Ernie is just begging to have the question asked "is the banana really what's keeping the alligators away." Often people will use the phrase "begging the question" incorrectly (in my view) without ever specifying what question is begging to be asked..., or showing any indication that they think there is some extra question needing to be asked.

Anyway, I would argue the Bert/Ernie example I gave is correct usage. Whether it really is or not, I don't know. Language has a way of morphing if enough people pile on with incorrect usage over time. (e.g. nookyoolar as a pronunciation of the word nuclear is acceptable (though not preferred) in many dictionaries. Countless other examples.)

Godless Wonder

And after actually reading the article I linked to I see that my interpretation is probably just another example of people piling on with erroneous usage, morphing the language. All the trouble seems to be a result of a bad translation from latin, according to the article. Well, it's all a mute point, I suppose. ;-)

mhc

Ha ha! Thanks for actually reading the article you linked to. There is no question that's begging anything, apparently. I like the Bert and Ernie example, although I think it is a better example of post hoc ergo propter hoc than of petitio principii.

Read

xorbie

So this all begs the question......

I actually use it in the incorrect way all the time *blush* because I think that in a philosophical context there are still several other things to say, and since brevity is really never an issue in philsophy, why not just spell it out?

jfryejr

This is a summary from:

http://skepdic.com/begging.html

It does a good job of explaining it. Basically, it is when your premise assumes your conclusion is true.

An example from a thread (well, not really a thread, more of an off topic message in the feedback forum) found through the search engine:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...hlight=begging

His premise is that reason comes from a designer. Therefore, this designer exists. No proof is offered that reason comes from a designer.

I *think* "begging the question" is the same as saying it's circular logic, but maybe sounds fancier (i.e. more confusing to the unaware). Anyone know if this is true?

mhc

xorbie:
oooohhhhhh......at the risk of sounding like a stick-in-the-mud, I would like to compliment you on your honesty and also suggest that in the case you speak of, no such phrase is necessary.

Instead of saying :
"So, all this begs the question :What is the correct form?"
Much clearer to simply ask the question, like this:
"So, what is the correct form?"

callmejay

I used to complain about incorrect usage of "beg the question" but then I started to see it in mainstream newspapers "incorrectly" and promptly gave up. Incidentally, my favorite common typo is "questino."

Clutch

I guess if enough journalism students decided to use "There's glory for you!" to mean "A nice knock-down argument"... that's what it would mean.