Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lunachick · 11-18-2002, 02:18 AM

Fundies sure like to give ol' Satan a bad rap, and it seems as time goes on poor Satan just gets more and more evil attributed to him. But what I've seen of fundie sites shows me that all these grossly perverse, bible-banging, twisted men and women are far more evil than the dear old devil could ever hope to be! Why is that? Doing a quick search on the horny horned one revealed one or two interesting things, and it seems to me that Satan was really about life, not eternal hellfire. God appears to be more about death and hellfire and damnation. So why is Satan considered the evil one and God considered the good one?

Anyway, I threw in a couple of links that I found interesting and wondered what y'all think about the information offered in them.
If any of you have any more light you could shed on the dark one, I'd be most grateful.

In the meantime: pleased to meet you - hope you guessed my name.

<a href="http://personal.monm.edu/johnson_richard_d/finalproject.htm" target="_blank">Jesus/Dionysus & Pan/Satan</a>

Quote:

New religions have borrowed ideas and imagery from older religions for thousands of years. When one religion overtook another�s sphere of influence, it sometimes incorporated part of the previous one into its dogma. Reasons for this could range from a lack of creativity to following a tried model that worked in the past. I feel that the Christian religion did this when it borrowed many ideas from older Greek and pagan religions. Evidence for this can be seen by the many similarities between two central Christian characters, Jesus and Satan, and two older Gods, Dionysus and Pan.

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/gnosticism.html" target="_blank">Gnosticism </a>

Quote:

Satan was seen both as Creator of this world, and Destroyer within it, much as the Indian Hindu deities embody both creative and destructive powers, mirroring the opposing patterns of Nature. But from an orthodox Judeo-Christian perspective, when Pan was replaced by Satan, it was the power of Darkness that was now being worshiped, leading to much confusion and persecution.

Quote:

When modern Christian ideas of morality began to use Satan as a metaphor for evil, the relatively innocent Pan/Satan icon of the Pagan nature religion took on a more sinister role, reversing simple human concepts of good and evil, social ethics and morality, into complex alchemical ideas of demon raising, "deal doing", sacrifice, and magick.

Edit: missed a link

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: lunachick ]

Walross · 11-18-2002, 08:06 AM

I've always seen Satan as an advocate of mankind, kind of a Prometheus figure. It's interesting to note that the serpent in Genesis tells the complete truth, as opposed to god who dodges the issues. It's also interesting that Xian mythology is never really clear on why Satan rebelled against god...maybe he had a good reason. In any case, I agree that he's definitely gotten a bad rap overall. The bible is full of awful atrocities, most of which are committed by god, not Satan.

Walross

11-18-2002, 08:32 AM

Satan is good, and fun and without satan we could never advance as an individual or society as a whole because he is the only angel(s) that came down to earth. The rest stayed in heaven and are only good when we overdose on satan (our guardian angels gaurd us from above to indicate that they are watching over us from a distance . . . and hence the idea of free will that we so admire and cherish).

Satan is the cause of the slavery to our senses by which we must distinguish between good and evil, which is good, but maybe not until the very end lest we as much as die with a hardon and never really knew what life was all about.

Lunachick, you should by a dildo and leave satan alone.

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

lunachick · 11-18-2002, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
Lunachick, you should by a dildo and leave satan alone.

ROFLMAO!! Okay, Amos.

You do realise I don't actually believe in Satan, don't you? I'm looking at this purely from a mythological point of view.

Of course, you are right though, Amos - dildo's, at least, are real. I'll check out the sex shops this afternoon. See what I can find.

lunachick · 11-18-2002, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Walross:
It's interesting to note that the serpent in Genesis tells the complete truth, as opposed to god who dodges the issues. It's also interesting that Xian mythology is never really clear on why Satan rebelled against god...maybe he had a good reason. The bible is full of awful atrocities, most of which are committed by god, not Satan.

This is what I'm wondering more and more about as I read more about bible verse and contradictions here.

You'd think that if god was completely good, then it would be he who tells the truth, and the serpent who lies. 'Truth' is what fundies say they have a monopoly on, yet they merely parrot untruths, it seems.
So far as I can see, Satan seems to have no problem with skin colour, sexual orientation, gender, or anything else that the bible harps on about. God is the one who is full of prejudice, hate and revenge - Satan seems to love us equally and is happy to live and let live (metaphorically speaking, of course).

Does anyone have any ideas as to why Satan rebelled against god?

Hmmmm...

Edit: typos - haven't had my morning coffee yet.

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: lunachick ]

Biff the unclean · 11-18-2002, 09:52 AM

Not only doesn't Satan lie to Adam & Eve, as God does, but he's the one who gives them "free will" by getting them to eat the fruit. Before they eat it they lacked the "knowledge of good and evil" without which there can be no free will.

11-18-2002, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunachick:


You do realise I don't actually believe in Satan, don't you? I'm looking at this purely from a mythological point of view.

Oh, I know you don't, but I sense a message from your posts that you disagree with the puritan aspects of religion. First with Magdalene and Jesus, and now with satan's influence on society. And I agree with you. I like sensuous people and find them at least honest with regard to their own sexuality. Not because it is good to be sensuous, but if you are you should be willing to express it.

Have fun.

echidna · 11-18-2002, 04:43 PM

I believe the Orgasmatron Thousand Volt Throbulators are on special this month, or so I�m told �

11-18-2002, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunachick:

Does anyone have any ideas as to why Satan rebelled against god?

Satan was provoked by woman of the Tree of Life, who saw that the Tree of Knowledge was good for food, wisdom and beauty( Gen.3:6), Satan is the lesser serpent of the TOK and is forever prodded by the greater serpent of the TOL.

The Tree of Knowledge became our conscious mind and the Tree of Life is our subconscious mind. Whenever we become restless the idea to get into trouble again is inspired by the subconscious mind and later planned out in the conscious mind.

Therefore the curse that followed:

"I will put emnity between your offspring and hers, she [from the TOL] will strike at your head [TOK] while you will strike at his heel [slave to the flesh]."

lunachick · 11-18-2002, 05:41 PM

Amos - doesn't that put the root of all evil right back on women? This is what I dislike most about religion. Evil is the curves and sensuality of a woman. Satan is a gal in hotpants. Never mind that the snake looks like a long schlong, not a Fredricks of Hollywood peekaboo brassiere in animal-print satin! No fair!

Echidna - I tried to get one, but they were out of stock. Had to put it on back-order.

Edited to remove 'floppy'. Snakes aren't 'floppy'.

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: lunachick ]

11-18-2002, 08:32 AM	#3
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Satan is good, and fun and without satan we could never advance as an individual or society as a whole because he is the only angel(s) that came down to earth. The rest stayed in heaven and are only good when we overdose on satan (our guardian angels gaurd us from above to indicate that they are watching over us from a distance . . . and hence the idea of free will that we so admire and cherish). Satan is the cause of the slavery to our senses by which we must distinguish between good and evil, which is good, but maybe not until the very end lest we as much as die with a hardon and never really knew what life was all about. Lunachick, you should by a dildo and leave satan alone. [ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

11-18-2002, 05:41 PM	#10
lunachick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NZ Posts: 7,895	Amos - doesn't that put the root of all evil right back on women? This is what I dislike most about religion. Evil is the curves and sensuality of a woman. Satan is a gal in hotpants. Never mind that the snake looks like a long schlong, not a Fredricks of Hollywood peekaboo brassiere in animal-print satin! No fair! Echidna - I tried to get one, but they were out of stock. Had to put it on back-order. Edited to remove 'floppy'. Snakes aren't 'floppy'. [ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: lunachick ]</p>

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11-18-2002, 08:06 AM	#2
Walross Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,569	I've always seen Satan as an advocate of mankind, kind of a Prometheus figure. It's interesting to note that the serpent in Genesis tells the complete truth, as opposed to god who dodges the issues. It's also interesting that Xian mythology is never really clear on why Satan rebelled against god...maybe he had a good reason. In any case, I agree that he's definitely gotten a bad rap overall. The bible is full of awful atrocities, most of which are committed by god, not Satan. Walross

11-18-2002, 09:52 AM	#6
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Not only doesn't Satan lie to Adam & Eve, as God does, but he's the one who gives them "free will" by getting them to eat the fruit. Before they eat it they lacked the "knowledge of good and evil" without which there can be no free will.

11-18-2002, 04:43 PM	#8
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	I believe the Orgasmatron Thousand Volt Throbulators are on special this month, or so I�m told �

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