philechat

One more vote for Homer.

To the Christians: Do you think the Christians who do not base everything in their life on God and the Bible to be "True Christians"?

GeoTheo

They are perhaps Christians who have not internalized their belief. I guess the terminology would be "lukewarm" or carnal Christians. Or they could be nominal Christians.
That is a good illustration of finding common ground between atheism and Christianity- lukewarm ambivalence.

philechat

When exactly was zealotry equated with virtue? The Marxists are zealous too, but they do not believe in God. Does that mean the Marxists are somehow more virtuous than our average atheist?

nermal

Personally, when it comes to religion specifically, I am in almost total agreement with whichever flavor of Christian I am talking to (~99.5%). For instance, if I am talking to a Babtist, we agree that:
Mormonism is crap.
Hinduism is crap.
Catholicism is crap.
Islam is crap.
.
.
.
It's only when we come to the Babtist denomination that we disagree.

Ed

luvluv

Theists and the better atheists agree that the existence or the non-existence of God matters.

Most of the slobs walking around on the planet don't even get that much.

At least we've both made firm decisions.

Ernest Sparks

JLennon,

you: Earnest Sparks remarks...
you: He thinks xianity is a fraud and soviet union did not do marxism right.

Gee, where did I say all this?



Oh, I guess you meant ex-xian rather than me.

ernie

JLennon

As a former xian--I know I made no such decision for myself. You sort of agree with me with your statement. For most people atheism amounts to nothing more than a reaction to religion. It very much is not a real self-made decision either even though it gets regarded as such. Myself--I have switched back and forth so much between being a xian and being an atheist that I now label myself an agnostic when I really don't know what category to put myself in. I know I would be a xian if I ever met any people whom I thought were trying to go by the bible. Why should I be the only christian on earth? People calling themselves christian are no more devout than being a person wearing christainty on them like some ornament. Not a precious and hard diamond either. More like soft and blurry pearl. And the pearl is worn for conceitful reasons. Certainly if there is a God, I have never met any person who has even the remotest chance of getting into heaven. Here is one where most christians go against the teachings of Jesus: Jesus said that it isn't what enters the mouth of men that defiles him--but what proceeds out. This is siad in at least 3 of the first 4 gospels--so there should be little confusion right? But a christian will tell you that smoking is a sin because our body is to be treated like a temple. Now--this seems like an absolute contradiction--does it not? It does to me. Fruthermore the verse where they get this body is a temple was in reference to harlotry--not ingesting anything at all. So, the bible does not contradict itself there--but that does not stop most christians from making things up and lying. Also--christian not only teach that smoking is a sin--but they also teach bigotry and hate against smokers. This in spite of their judge not lest ye be judge--Matt chpt 7. When it comes to bigotry and conceit a typical christian is very hard to surpass.

HelenM

I understand you being upset by the behavior of some Christians but I don't understand why you'd reject God based on it.

I mean, I wouldn't reject you based on the behavior of your kids - if you had grown-up children whose behavior I didn't approve of. I don't think that would be fair since they make their own decisions about how to behave. It would be unreasonable to blame you entirely for their behavior although I might be led to wonder whether the way you raised them had any influence.

You said that atheists are atheists as a reaction against religion. I think it's best not to generalize but it seems clear from this post that your atheism is a reaction against Christians. I don't see that as entirely rational for reasons I just tried to explain. Perhaps you have reasons not to believe in God that you didn't go into in this post. If you don't - if your only objection to Christianity is the behavior of some Christians - maybe a better solution than rejecting God because of them is to look for a church where Christians take seriously their responsibility to love God and love other people. A place where you feel other Christians are trying as hard as you are, in other words.

I wish you the best.

take care
Helen

HelenM

Most Christians I know would admit that atheists and Christians have some things in common.

If you were shut up in a dark cold room without food for long enough I think you'd be pretty happy to see the first human who came along, especially if they had food with them for you. You might rather they were a Christian so you could talk about the LORD together but I think you'd be happy to see even an atheist. And if you were in a burning building you wouldn't stay there until a Christian fireman (or woman ) came along, rejecting any atheist fireman (or woman) who offered to rescue you. If you needed surgery to save your life and an atheist surgeon was designated to do it I don't think you'd say "no thanks - I'll wait for a Christian even if I die waiting".

Helen

JLennon

I am saying that atheist and christians are basically alike--but they tend to disagree on everything just to be disagreeable.

Helen--I most certainly must take religion, christianity, marxism--whatever--with regard to results. Do I see christianity making people stronger as they get older as people? Just the opposite is what I see. Does marxism deliver the beautiful picture that it paints? Just the opposite.

I see marxism and christianity both being follies. I see atheism as a whole as also not doing well in producing enlightened people--just the opposite. Yet--enlightened people can be found in all faiths and atheism. There are people who have slipped through the cracks.

When we compare western religions and ideology versus eastern cultures--we see that the western cultures are superior to eastern cultures in every way imaginable--yet I know this superiority has come about because of our secularism versus eastern nations religions of intolerance. Yet if we look at atheistic marxism we see equal mental stagnation at almost every level.

See Helen? I am only after results and truths. So, I look at the christians in general. What I see are people doing just the opposite of what the bible teaches. Instead of christians, for instance, being against murder, most christians are warmongers and can't be much of anything else. Instaed of christians taking communion using wine and bread, they use crackers and grape juice to show their superiority. Christians are the in your face types with their faith--just the opposite of being humble. Christian witness to others by owning SUVs and homes that they can ill afford.

Republicans try to oppress the poor--Democrats love taxes to oppress the average worker--and both parties are warmongers for the fascist state of Israel. The Holy Land is just the opposite of holy. The Vatican is testimony of oppressing the poor and intolerance. Not a homage for the poor and the opressed. If you look about you, Helen, you will find hypocracy everywhere and little else.