Freethought & Rationalism Archive

abe smith · 05-06-2002, 07:07 AM

Yesterdy at my Bro's I read Sept 2001 *Discover* article about Mike M.... {Forget last name} who, blinded ae 3 in an explosion, had some vision restored in his one eye, by some fancy manoeuvering w/ stem-cells, many decades later, after having adapted all his life to functioning very physically as a guy w/o sight == a whole-nother sensory mode. Read the article; interesting questions roused. My point in citing it here is to say that the experimental/experiential data forthcome from this doing substantiate a longterm upsniff of mine that that beautifully-detailed, wow is it ever! miracle-story is literally unbelievable; beCUZ biologically/physiologically, IT COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED LIKE THAT, miracle or no miracle. Check out the two different refs: the Gospel story {It was the gospel of the day a couple Sundays ago. The guy's name was Bartimaeus. A splendidly circumstantial seemingly eye-witness report.} and [check out also] the *Discover* article, about how humankind have to LEARN to SEE, in a narrow time-window of their infancy. Fascinating! the whole two-thang. Abe

leonarde · 05-06-2002, 08:16 AM

Abe,
Howdy! Thanks for the reference to Discover. I'll have a look the next time I'm in the local public library.
This PARTICULAR subject has intrigued me for a
few years: ever since I read an article by one Keith Mano in National Review magazine (April of
97?)which focussed on ANOTHER of these healing
incidents in the NT. There are at least 3 highlighted healings from blindness:

1)Bartimeus, whom you mention (M't 20:30-34; M'k
10:46-52).

2)a man of Bethsaida (M'k 8:22-25).

3)a man born blind (John 9:1-7).

There were presumably many others healed but these
were the ones spotlighted in the Gospels.

Mano's article first recalls a book by Oliver
Sacks concerning a man who, blind from birth, had
received sight via some advanced medical surgical
procedure. The man found the sight very problematic: since he had not gone through the period of eye/mind stimulation/training that infants do, the world was a vast array of indecipherable lines.
Mano made a mental connection between this case
cited by Sacks and the second case listed above:
the blind man of Bethsaida. Observe the depiction:

Quote:

And they came to Bethsaida. And some people brought to him a blind man, and begged him to touch him. And he took the blind man by the hand,
and led him out of the village; and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands upon him, he asked him, "Do you see anything?"
And he looked up and said, "I see men; but they look like trees walking." Then again he laid his hands upon his eyes; and he looked intently and was restored, and saw everything clearly. And he sent him away to his home, saying "Do not even enter the village."

Mano notes that there were two healings for this particular man: the first in which he receives the PHYSICAL gift of sight, and the second in which the distortions which such a gift would ocassion in adulthood are
removed. Chances are that 1900 years ago little was known of the development of sight so this particular detail seems to point to authenticity
as far as the particular incident.
I've been thinking about the account and its significance ever since so your Discover article will give me further perspective on the phenomenon.
Cheers!

leonarde · 05-06-2002, 08:23 AM

Sorry! I should have said that the Bible quotation
of my previous post was from the Revised Standard
Version.
Cheers!

jdawg2 · 05-06-2002, 11:51 AM

does he have a superhuman radar sense also?

abe smith · 05-08-2002, 05:42 AM

OOOPS! sorry as all get-out; cited WRONG issue of *Discover*; it's in the current = JUNE 2002 issue. I did'n mean ta DOOOO it! . Thx Leonardo; I'll check-out the earlier article of Sacks {?}. Fascinating subject. Why don"t we-all start a thread about {New? Old? Both?} bible impossibilities? Probably been done already: Eliz Cady Stanton' s Women's Bible? Anyone have an on-line ref for JUNK biblical assertions? Jonah, Balaam, Joshua .... et tutti cuanti..... THX. Abe

leonarde · 05-09-2002, 01:13 PM

Abe,
I read the Discover article: first rate! Many
points of similarity with the article in National
Review that I referenced: the idea that color and
the perception of movement are "hardwired" and thus don't suffer from lacking a period of visual
acclimatization in childhood the way that other
aspects of vision do.
If the glitch at ARN is worked out in the next
few days I will go to the archives there and copy
and paste the OP of the thread there that I started on this subject months ago.
Cheers!

05-06-2002, 07:07 AM	#1
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	that Gospel born-blind guy miracle Yesterdy at my Bro's I read Sept 2001 Discover article about Mike M.... {Forget last name} who, blinded ae 3 in an explosion, had some vision restored in his one eye, by some fancy manoeuvering w/ stem-cells, many decades later, after having adapted all his life to functioning very physically as a guy w/o sight == a whole-nother sensory mode. Read the article; interesting questions roused. My point in citing it here is to say that the experimental/experiential data forthcome from this doing substantiate a longterm upsniff of mine that that beautifully-detailed, wow is it ever! miracle-story is literally unbelievable; beCUZ biologically/physiologically, IT COULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED LIKE THAT, miracle or no miracle. Check out the two different refs: the Gospel story {It was the gospel of the day a couple Sundays ago. The guy's name was Bartimaeus. A splendidly circumstantial seemingly eye-witness report.} and [check out also] the Discover article, about how humankind have to LEARN to SEE, in a narrow time-window of their infancy. Fascinating! the whole two-thang. Abe

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05-06-2002, 08:23 AM	#3
leonarde Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North America Posts: 1,603	Sorry! I should have said that the Bible quotation of my previous post was from the Revised Standard Version. Cheers!

05-06-2002, 11:51 AM	#4
jdawg2 Regular Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Cedar Hill, TX USA Posts: 113	does he have a superhuman radar sense also?

05-08-2002, 05:42 AM	#5
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	OOOPS! sorry as all get-out; cited WRONG issue of Discover; it's in the current = JUNE 2002 issue. I did'n mean ta DOOOO it! . Thx Leonardo; I'll check-out the earlier article of Sacks {?}. Fascinating subject. Why don"t we-all start a thread about {New? Old? Both?} bible impossibilities? Probably been done already: Eliz Cady Stanton' s Women's Bible? Anyone have an on-line ref for JUNK biblical assertions? Jonah, Balaam, Joshua .... et tutti cuanti..... THX. Abe

05-09-2002, 01:13 PM	#6
leonarde Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North America Posts: 1,603	Abe, I read the Discover article: first rate! Many points of similarity with the article in National Review that I referenced: the idea that color and the perception of movement are "hardwired" and thus don't suffer from lacking a period of visual acclimatization in childhood the way that other aspects of vision do. If the glitch at ARN is worked out in the next few days I will go to the archives there and copy and paste the OP of the thread there that I started on this subject months ago. Cheers!

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