Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GeoTheo · 04-19-2003, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by philechat
Before you can exercise your imagination a bit I suppose we do not have common ground. Black-and-white thinking is the antithesis of knowledge--in knowledge we welcome disagreement and uncertainties. People might become more understanding of each other only after they get rid of their moral hang-ups and prejudices.

"The difference between a thinker and a professor is the thinker's acceptance of paradoxes"

~Kierkegaard

Actually,
I accept paradoxes. In my experience here, though, they are used to prove that God doesn't exist. Are you willing to accept that paradoxes my have different ramifications?

philechat · 04-19-2003, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo
Actually,
I accept paradoxes. In my experience here, though, they are used to prove that God doesn't exist. Are you willing to accept that paradoxes my have different ramifications?

As for those "argument-from-evil" proponents I would say I disagree with them most of the time (except for the argument from Heaven). I do not deny paradoxes exist, and perhaps your godhead is one of them. And it is from the acceptance of paradox that we can at least "try to understand" each other. And then you said it is impossible because there is nothing in common between a Christian and atheist--now what? Can you not accept another (in my opinion more feasible) paradox now?

JLennon · 04-19-2003, 08:34 PM

Nay there are some common ground between xians and atheists. They are both dogmatic to the point that what good they could serve becomes null and void.

JLennon · 04-19-2003, 08:37 PM

Secularism is nothing more than forced tolerance--it is not and had never been atheism in of itself. Secularism as the ability to free mens minds where none of the fiaths--or atheism in of itself is able to do that--hence the western cultures is superior to the eastern cultures by much more than just a trifle.

philechat · 04-19-2003, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JLennon
Nay there are some common ground between xians and atheists. They are both dogmatic to the point that what good they could serve becomes null and void.

Have I not told you before. Stop the gross generalization. There are million kinds of Christians and million kinds of atheists, so here you are just sprouting assertions disregarding the diversity in every group existed. Atheists are not all Marxists and Christians are not all fundies. I hope you can understand that.

I agree on the freedom of religion and on the importance of disagreement in the field of knowledge. Enforced atheism will be as bad as enforced Islam, IMHO.

JLennon · 04-19-2003, 08:50 PM

philechat--you just agreed with my deductions completely--but you say I can't generalize. Well, I say I can and always will. So there!!!

philechat · 04-19-2003, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JLennon
philechat--you just agreed with my deductions completely--but you say I can't generalize. Well, I say I can and always will. So there!!!

:banghead: :boohoo:

HelenM · 04-20-2003, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo
Let's look at it Mathmatically:
Atheist represented by '0' because they have no belief in God.
Christian represented by '1' because they have a belief in God.
Trying to find "common ground" is represented by averaging.
The average of 1 and 0 is .5
Then you could perhaps seek to find more common ground.
the average of .5 and 0 is .25
Each time you do this the Christian loses ground.
The atheist does not gain .5 of a belief in God in these exchanges.
zero is zero.
Belief in God is from a supernatural creative act on the part of God. There is nothing to be gained in finding common ground

If the atheist doesn't gain .5 of a belief, I'm not sure why you'd say the Christian loses .5 of one.

But anyway...Happy Easter!

Helen

Rousseau_CHN · 04-20-2003, 04:15 AM

We agree to disagree. good enough?

JLennon · 04-20-2003, 06:52 AM

Ok I read GeoTheo's math post again--i didn't get it the first time around. I like the effort!!! But it does have one major flaw. The atheist could be 1 and the believer could be 0. Because one can make the argument that belief in a god or supernatural in humans is innate. It would have been impossible for cavemen to have not believe in spirits. With establish and consise religion as we have with Greaco/Roman and christianity, the ability to become nonbeliever in the spirit world is greatly enhanced. TO LIVE IN TODAY"S MODERN TIMES--sorry for the caps, I have a shift key that sticks--and to witness so much daily hypocracy--holding on to religious faith would take extreme effort--so it should in that case get a 1--but only for adults. It takes no effrt to be suckered into religion when you are little--so those under 30 with religion get 0 assigned to them. those 30 years old exactly get .5. And those that are 31 and older get 1 assigned to them. Now, Geo make this math theory work to help us explain stuff or to think this stuff out more rationally. I think you wasted a post with your previous conclusion when you were on to something very interesting. There still may not be any gain by finding a common ground--so what?--but what can we find here?

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04-19-2003, 08:34 PM	#63
JLennon Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 17	Nay there are some common ground between xians and atheists. They are both dogmatic to the point that what good they could serve becomes null and void.

04-19-2003, 08:37 PM	#64
JLennon Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 17	Secularism is nothing more than forced tolerance--it is not and had never been atheism in of itself. Secularism as the ability to free mens minds where none of the fiaths--or atheism in of itself is able to do that--hence the western cultures is superior to the eastern cultures by much more than just a trifle.

04-19-2003, 08:50 PM	#66
JLennon Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 17	philechat--you just agreed with my deductions completely--but you say I can't generalize. Well, I say I can and always will. So there!!!

04-20-2003, 04:15 AM	#69
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	We agree to disagree. good enough?

04-20-2003, 06:52 AM	#70
JLennon Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 17	Ok I read GeoTheo's math post again--i didn't get it the first time around. I like the effort!!! But it does have one major flaw. The atheist could be 1 and the believer could be 0. Because one can make the argument that belief in a god or supernatural in humans is innate. It would have been impossible for cavemen to have not believe in spirits. With establish and consise religion as we have with Greaco/Roman and christianity, the ability to become nonbeliever in the spirit world is greatly enhanced. TO LIVE IN TODAY"S MODERN TIMES--sorry for the caps, I have a shift key that sticks--and to witness so much daily hypocracy--holding on to religious faith would take extreme effort--so it should in that case get a 1--but only for adults. It takes no effrt to be suckered into religion when you are little--so those under 30 with religion get 0 assigned to them. those 30 years old exactly get .5. And those that are 31 and older get 1 assigned to them. Now, Geo make this math theory work to help us explain stuff or to think this stuff out more rationally. I think you wasted a post with your previous conclusion when you were on to something very interesting. There still may not be any gain by finding a common ground--so what?--but what can we find here?

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