Freethought & Rationalism Archive

beachbum · 01-09-2002, 11:25 AM

Over <a href="http://search.viafamily.com/bbs/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001071.html" target="_blank">Here</a>. There are two Kent ovind believing fundies claiming that evolution is circular logic. Any one care to have a go? I wouldn't mind a little support

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: beachbum ]

{Edited to fix link - Pantera}

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Pantera ]</p>

Jamie_L · 01-09-2002, 11:52 AM

A good site with concise info about Science, Evolution, and Creationism is here:

<a href="http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/creationism/" target="_blank">http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/creationism/</a>

It deals a lot with school/teaching issues, but it answers a lot of the "it's not proven" and "there's no evidence" arguments. If nothing else, it's good reading for you to help clarify responses to this kind of stuff.

Jamie

FreeToThink · 01-09-2002, 12:55 PM

Sorry, beachbum. I wanted to help. I really did. But good grief, some of those posters are ignorant. I think my head would explode if I tried to argue against some of their nonsense!

I'll be, um, praying for you.

Peregrine · 01-09-2002, 12:55 PM

The main problem with the argument is that they approach it at the individual organism level where evolution applies to populations.

scarmig · 01-10-2002, 03:56 AM

I tried to get in there but the admin won't approve my registration.

excreationist · 01-10-2002, 04:23 AM

beachbum:
have a look at this thread:
<a href="http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000017" target="_blank">Answers in Genesis - Arguments we think creationists should NOT use</a>
And follow the link to the AiG site. There are probably some things there that apply to that discussion and to other ones you have. And give that AiG link to that board... they'd probably pay attention to something from AiG.

Quetzal · 01-10-2002, 05:50 AM

beachbum: Unfortunately I don't have enough time even to keep up with II. However, if you feel like rebutting jenna (who simply plagarized her whole last post from ICR - not that I expect intellectual honesty from a fundie), try <a href="http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000016" target="_blank">this thread</a>. Feel free to copy my whole OP. In addition, Tim provided a ton of outstanding evidence for my explanation on page 2 of the same thread - I don't think he'd mind you using it. There's also an excellent thermodynamics thread active right now on this board. Go Get 'Em!

As for the other weasel who posted that massive tome - suggest you tell him/her to pick one or two questions to argue with at a time. You can come back here and get good data for your battles. Ain't E/C fun?

Shadow Wraith · 01-10-2002, 09:19 AM

Hey, beachbum. Are you the scratch dude? Anyways, I'm fixing to register so I can teach those ignoramuses something. You'll have one more person on your side.

cartman · 01-10-2002, 11:50 AM

Sorry, scratch.

I'd like to help you out, but I find I am no longer able to tolerate the strain of bigotry generally practiced at 711.

I, too, will pray for you.

Felix

MOJO-JOJO · 01-10-2002, 12:51 PM

beachbum, be careful...remember their prime directive;

We are BORG...resistance is FUTILE!

01-09-2002, 11:25 AM	#1
beachbum Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cocoa Beach, FL Posts: 864	They are ganging up on me Over <a href="http://search.viafamily.com/bbs/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001071.html" target="_blank">Here</a>. There are two Kent ovind believing fundies claiming that evolution is circular logic. Any one care to have a go? I wouldn't mind a little support [ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: beachbum ] {Edited to fix link - Pantera} [ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Pantera ]</p>

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01-09-2002, 11:52 AM	#2
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	A good site with concise info about Science, Evolution, and Creationism is here: <a href="http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/creationism/" target="_blank">http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/creationism/</a> It deals a lot with school/teaching issues, but it answers a lot of the "it's not proven" and "there's no evidence" arguments. If nothing else, it's good reading for you to help clarify responses to this kind of stuff. Jamie

01-09-2002, 12:55 PM	#3
FreeToThink Regular Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 167	Sorry, beachbum. I wanted to help. I really did. But good grief, some of those posters are ignorant. I think my head would explode if I tried to argue against some of their nonsense! I'll be, um, praying for you.

01-09-2002, 12:55 PM	#4
Peregrine Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 385	The main problem with the argument is that they approach it at the individual organism level where evolution applies to populations.

01-10-2002, 03:56 AM	#5
scarmig Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 689	I tried to get in there but the admin won't approve my registration.

01-10-2002, 04:23 AM	#6
excreationist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 4,886	beachbum: have a look at this thread: <a href="http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000017" target="_blank">Answers in Genesis - Arguments we think creationists should NOT use</a> And follow the link to the AiG site. There are probably some things there that apply to that discussion and to other ones you have. And give that AiG link to that board... they'd probably pay attention to something from AiG.

01-10-2002, 05:50 AM	#7
Quetzal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ecuador Posts: 738	beachbum: Unfortunately I don't have enough time even to keep up with II. However, if you feel like rebutting jenna (who simply plagarized her whole last post from ICR - not that I expect intellectual honesty from a fundie), try <a href="http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=53&t=000016" target="_blank">this thread</a>. Feel free to copy my whole OP. In addition, Tim provided a ton of outstanding evidence for my explanation on page 2 of the same thread - I don't think he'd mind you using it. There's also an excellent thermodynamics thread active right now on this board. Go Get 'Em! As for the other weasel who posted that massive tome - suggest you tell him/her to pick one or two questions to argue with at a time. You can come back here and get good data for your battles. Ain't E/C fun?

01-10-2002, 09:19 AM	#8
Shadow Wraith Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: North Augusta, SC; Aiken-Augusta metro area Posts: 283	Hey, beachbum. Are you the scratch dude? Anyways, I'm fixing to register so I can teach those ignoramuses something. You'll have one more person on your side.

01-10-2002, 11:50 AM	#9
cartman Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: USA Posts: 175	Sorry, scratch. I'd like to help you out, but I find I am no longer able to tolerate the strain of bigotry generally practiced at 711. I, too, will pray for you. Felix

01-10-2002, 12:51 PM	#10
MOJO-JOJO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Nashville, USA Posts: 949	beachbum, be careful...remember their prime directive; We are BORG...resistance is FUTILE!

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