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Old 04-11-2003, 07:29 AM   #1
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Default altruism

I would posit that there is no such thing as a truly selfless, altruistic act. The simple fact that the person who perpetrates this act is enriched by some intrinsic mechanism through the perpetration of their act negates the ability to do something in a purely altruistic manner.
Any thoughts?
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Old 04-11-2003, 07:36 AM   #2
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I agree. I believe that people always act in their own self interest.
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Old 04-11-2003, 09:56 AM   #3
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What about someone who would sacrifice himself to save his family? For example, in the Holocaust or some such tragedy when something like that could happen.

ARe you saying that giving your own life would be done out of selfishness? I'm interested...thanks.
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Old 04-11-2003, 09:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: altruism

Quote:
Originally posted by Godot
I would posit that there is no such thing as a truly selfless, altruistic act.
Hi Godot!

By the same token I could argue there is no such thing as stupidity, since any act must be taken to cause enrichment etc.

Cheers, John

BTW, I do like the word "posit".
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Old 04-11-2003, 10:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReasonableDoubt
What about someone who would sacrifice himself to save his family? For example, in the Holocaust or some such tragedy when something like that could happen.

ARe you saying that giving your own life would be done out of selfishness? I'm interested...thanks.

Well, such a sacrifice could well be in your own interest from a strictly biological point of view, i.e. securing the survival of your genes for the future. Albeit I doubt anyone sacrificing his/hers life for a family member have thoughts in that direction.
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Old 04-11-2003, 10:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
I would posit that there is no such thing as a truly selfless, altruistic act. The simple fact that the person who perpetrates this act is enriched by some intrinsic mechanism through the perpetration of their act negates the ability to do something in a purely altruistic manner.
Any thoughts?
Quote:
I believe that people always act in their own self interest.
I assume each of you think all human actions are egoistic-- Warwick is explicit about this, but this is your view also, isn't it Godot? Now then, can either of you produce actual instances of egoistic actions and defend your claim that they are motivated by self-interest. I am curious as to why either of you think that other people ever act egoistically.

John Galt, Jr.
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:48 AM   #7
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Thumbs down confusion of the term sacrifice

The word 'sacrifice' has been misused in about 99 percent of the time. If it is to mean a loss, and its antonym is gain, then one never truly sacrifices anything in acts of supposedly altruistic nature.

One does not sacrifice his life to save his family unless he values his life more than his family's.

If i thought my life is more important than my entire family's then killing myself to save theirs is accurately a "sacrifice."

As it stands, there are no such altruistic actions.
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Old 04-11-2003, 12:04 PM   #8
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"One does not sacrifice his life to save his family unless he values his life more than his family's."

So if you value your family's life more than yours you should let them die instead of giving your own life? I don't follow.
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Old 04-11-2003, 12:31 PM   #9
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Smile what does sacrifice mean to you?

Quote:
Originally posted by ReasonableDoubt
So if you value your family's life more than yours you should let them die instead of giving your own life? I don't follow.
No. I am not in the business of creating prescriptive norms, so kindly ditch the "ought" and stick to the "is."

If you value the lives of your family more than your own, then you can't call the act of saving your family by giving up your life sacrifice - but an act of gain.

An act of sacrifice is giving up a brand new volvo for a hand me down huffy.
An act of gain is giving up a huffy for a volvo.

A mother "sacrificing" her life for her child is technically not a sacrifice - unless she values her life more than her child's.
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Old 04-11-2003, 12:32 PM   #10
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Cool

By the way, "sacrifice" in so-called altruistic actions is another unexamined concept that owes its origins to theistic reasoning.
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