Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SecularFuture · 10-26-2002, 07:14 PM

I believe we are born to learn, and to share experiences through what we have learned. Each new generation brings new ideas to explore, and the longer we live - the more time we�ll have to share in the grand experience that is life.

Wouldn�t it be a more fascinating journey to actually be there to experience each new idea, from each new generation?

Should physical immortality be made into a popular option?

Death has always been the tradition, and where does tradition usually get us? No where! (think about that one for a moment)

After we break away from the mind infecting god myths, I sincerely believe that we will all become more focused on improving and preserving our species. Once we break away from the �big parent in the sky is taking care of us� concept, we will all become humanists, sincere lovers of our world � and each other.

The following is from - <a href="http://www.transhumanism.com/2002/treder0202.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.transhumanism.com/2002/treder0202.shtml</a>
Adherents of transhumanist philosophy believe that:
1. Some (perhaps all) limitations of human nature are undesirable.
2. Science and technology, steered by human values, could enable us to transcend our limitations.
3. Transcending the current limitations of human nature will lead to remarkable reductions in human suffering and marvelous improvements in human freedom, happiness, and potential.

What do you think?

[Moderators:] Don�t worry. I do have other things to talk about. But, since I am a transhumanist, I thought it would be appropriate to start with something relating to my personal beliefs.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: SecularFuture ]</p>

Chip · 10-26-2002, 07:37 PM

I have to agree with you whole heartedly except that I find some within the transhumanist community appear to hold the concept of creating the singularity, intelligence other and superlative to human, as desirable and inevitable. Myself, I ascribe to the rather pure concept of humanism as you state "sincere lovers of our world � and each other" which leads me to conclude that any resources applied to creating the singularity should be placed in augmenting and improving human intelligence.

I see you are relatively new here. Look out. There are individuals and administrators here who are basically into the "us vs them" same ole same ole as religions have continually justified over time. Humanism as you and I define it is something they seem to abhor and vehemently at times as well as with how the forum is managed. I'm really quite an infidel to their faith and will probably leave here soon either by being kicked out or just through my own inability to stomach the disgust at all the waste and bickering that goes on here.

Though I can't claim that I am a transhumanist for the reason stated above, I have and continue to find that they exhibit more civil and reasonalbe behavior than many.

Thank you for the refreshing and meaningful post.

SecularFuture · 10-26-2002, 07:52 PM

Chip,

Quote:

� I find some within the transhumanist community appear to hold the concept of creating the singularity, intelligence other and superlative to human, as desirable and inevitable.�

The bodies we have now are very fragile. We need to either find a way to super-reinforce what we already have, or find a way to replace what we have with something better and more indestructible.

Quote:

� Myself, I ascribe to the rather pure concept of humanism as you state "sincere lovers of our world � and each other"�

Transhumanists and humanists can always, and should always, work together. Are you a secular humanist?

Quote:

� any resources applied to creating the singularity should be placed in augmenting and improving human intelligence.�

That makes perfect sense.

Quote:

� There are individuals and administrators here who are basically into the "us vs them" same ole same ole as religions have continually justified over time.�

Oh � I�m armed and ready for any and all debates.
Let me at em!

Quote:

� I'm really quite an infidel to their faith and will probably leave here soon either by being kicked out or just through my own inability to stomach the disgust at all the waste and bickering that goes on here.�

Keep your cool. We have a job to do.

Quote:

� Thank you for the refreshing and meaningful post.�

You�re welcome and thank you.

Chip · 10-26-2002, 08:05 PM

SecularFuture: "Are you a secular humanist?"

Well, I find that such a classification may be tainted as an insult against humanists. I attempt to explain this more at <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000419" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000419</a> in the second paragraph. So, no, I do not consider myself as a secular humanist. I like my terms to be simple and without duplicitous interpretation.

Edited to correct punctuation.

[ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Chip ]</p>

Straight Hate · 10-27-2002, 02:54 PM

To the resident transhumanists and those who enjoy entertaining what may be considered often outlandish ideas, do (can) you envision a future where we exist as consciousness devoid of physical form and unrestricted by space? (...Much like the Cocytans in Alan Dean Foster's The Dig) Let me explain:

The 'cyborg' is coming. Already there are people who walk around with headsets that are connected to the internet who are able to use remote facial recognition technology with new people they meet who are entered into the database. Indeed, we also see inventions where the human body can be used as a medium for the internet.

Can we continue further into a time when every human being is equipped with wireless technology connected to the internet (or some global communications network)? When we have technology that exploits the visual/spatial areas of our brain to project images we can 'see' within our mind? When we can communicate by feelings and concepts instead of language?

Can we keep going so far as to state a time will come when individual boundaries are surpassed so that humanity reflects as a single, conscious, 'schizophrenic' mass? Would this consciousness be restricted to physical form, or could it somehow exist as energy within the very fabric of space-time?

Far out thinking, but oh the possibilities!

SecularFuture · 10-28-2002, 01:53 PM

Kathall,

Quote:

�do (can) you envision a future where we exist as consciousness devoid of physical form and unrestricted by space?�

Sure � why not? The concept offers more freedom.

You have a lot of questions about transhumanism, most of them I am not qualified to answer. Please go to <a href="http://www.google.com" target="_blank">http://www.google.com</a> and look up �transhumanism�. They will have the information you require.

Theli · 10-29-2002, 12:49 AM

Where's Rainbow Walking when we need him?

SecularFuture · 10-29-2002, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Theli:
<strong>Where's Rainbow Walking when we need him?

</strong>

Who is Rainbow?

Helmling · 10-29-2002, 07:01 PM

Am I the only one inclined to think that if we succeeded in fullfilling the agenda of "transhumanism" that we would no longer be human?

Primal · 10-29-2002, 08:17 PM

SF, this is DialecticMaterialist from the AN. Didn't we already discuss how your ideas are at odds with the first and second laws of thermodynamics? And that you seem unable to say exactly why limitations are bad. I don't see why a limitation is necessarily bad, though I've noticed you've changed the statement from "all limitations are bad" to "some, perhaps all, are bad". Anyways, it's interesting how people on this board are more receptive.....or are they? Whatever that entails is beyond me.

10-26-2002, 07:14 PM	#1
SecularFuture Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,866	Transhumanism and Physical Immortality I believe we are born to learn, and to share experiences through what we have learned. Each new generation brings new ideas to explore, and the longer we live - the more time we�ll have to share in the grand experience that is life. Wouldn�t it be a more fascinating journey to actually be there to experience each new idea, from each new generation? Should physical immortality be made into a popular option? Death has always been the tradition, and where does tradition usually get us? No where! (think about that one for a moment) After we break away from the mind infecting god myths, I sincerely believe that we will all become more focused on improving and preserving our species. Once we break away from the �big parent in the sky is taking care of us� concept, we will all become humanists, sincere lovers of our world � and each other. The following is from - <a href="http://www.transhumanism.com/2002/treder0202.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.transhumanism.com/2002/treder0202.shtml</a> Adherents of transhumanist philosophy believe that: 1. Some (perhaps all) limitations of human nature are undesirable. 2. Science and technology, steered by human values, could enable us to transcend our limitations. 3. Transcending the current limitations of human nature will lead to remarkable reductions in human suffering and marvelous improvements in human freedom, happiness, and potential. What do you think? [Moderators:] Don�t worry. I do have other things to talk about. But, since I am a transhumanist, I thought it would be appropriate to start with something relating to my personal beliefs. [ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: SecularFuture ]</p>

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10-26-2002, 07:37 PM	#2
Chip Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 382	I have to agree with you whole heartedly except that I find some within the transhumanist community appear to hold the concept of creating the singularity, intelligence other and superlative to human, as desirable and inevitable. Myself, I ascribe to the rather pure concept of humanism as you state "sincere lovers of our world � and each other" which leads me to conclude that any resources applied to creating the singularity should be placed in augmenting and improving human intelligence. I see you are relatively new here. Look out. There are individuals and administrators here who are basically into the "us vs them" same ole same ole as religions have continually justified over time. Humanism as you and I define it is something they seem to abhor and vehemently at times as well as with how the forum is managed. I'm really quite an infidel to their faith and will probably leave here soon either by being kicked out or just through my own inability to stomach the disgust at all the waste and bickering that goes on here. Though I can't claim that I am a transhumanist for the reason stated above, I have and continue to find that they exhibit more civil and reasonalbe behavior than many. Thank you for the refreshing and meaningful post.

10-26-2002, 08:05 PM	#4
Chip Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 382	SecularFuture: "Are you a secular humanist?" Well, I find that such a classification may be tainted as an insult against humanists. I attempt to explain this more at <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000419" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000419</a> in the second paragraph. So, no, I do not consider myself as a secular humanist. I like my terms to be simple and without duplicitous interpretation. Edited to correct punctuation. [ October 26, 2002: Message edited by: Chip ]</p>

10-27-2002, 02:54 PM	#5
Straight Hate Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 4,171	To the resident transhumanists and those who enjoy entertaining what may be considered often outlandish ideas, do (can) you envision a future where we exist as consciousness devoid of physical form and unrestricted by space? (...Much like the Cocytans in Alan Dean Foster's The Dig) Let me explain: The 'cyborg' is coming. Already there are people who walk around with headsets that are connected to the internet who are able to use remote facial recognition technology with new people they meet who are entered into the database. Indeed, we also see inventions where the human body can be used as a medium for the internet. Can we continue further into a time when every human being is equipped with wireless technology connected to the internet (or some global communications network)? When we have technology that exploits the visual/spatial areas of our brain to project images we can 'see' within our mind? When we can communicate by feelings and concepts instead of language? Can we keep going so far as to state a time will come when individual boundaries are surpassed so that humanity reflects as a single, conscious, 'schizophrenic' mass? Would this consciousness be restricted to physical form, or could it somehow exist as energy within the very fabric of space-time? Far out thinking, but oh the possibilities!

10-29-2002, 12:49 AM	#7
Theli Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,567	Where's Rainbow Walking when we need him?

10-29-2002, 07:01 PM	#9
Helmling Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: El Paso, TX, USA Posts: 18	Am I the only one inclined to think that if we succeeded in fullfilling the agenda of "transhumanism" that we would no longer be human?

10-29-2002, 08:17 PM	#10
Primal Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Marcos Posts: 551	SF, this is DialecticMaterialist from the AN. Didn't we already discuss how your ideas are at odds with the first and second laws of thermodynamics? And that you seem unable to say exactly why limitations are bad. I don't see why a limitation is necessarily bad, though I've noticed you've changed the statement from "all limitations are bad" to "some, perhaps all, are bad". Anyways, it's interesting how people on this board are more receptive.....or are they? Whatever that entails is beyond me.

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