Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dominus Paradoxum · 02-02-2003, 03:02 PM

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

oriecat · 02-02-2003, 09:44 PM

Not nearly fast enough!

Interesting stats.

Shake · 02-03-2003, 01:21 PM

Wow! Great link!

This is so refreshing to see in the wake of W's attempt to Xianize the nation, especially following 9/11 and now the Columbia tragedy!

Speaking of Columbia: One of the local news stations was previewing their 6PM broadcast with this, "... and after the tragedy, local residents are finding comfort in their faith. ..." I looked at the screen and said, "No, I'm not!" Sure, I was saddened, too. But I don't need some church for 'comforting' or to 'get me through' this 'tough time.'

OK, rant over.

Principia · 02-03-2003, 01:24 PM

This is interesting, when in contrast some of the Christian census-takers seem to indicate otherwise. There was another thread about population statistics here.

admice · 02-03-2003, 01:39 PM

It said according to ARIS - anyone know about this organization?

theyeti · 02-03-2003, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by admice
It said according to ARIS - anyone know about this organization?

It's not an organization, it's a survey:

Quote:

A similar American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) was conducted in 2001-FEB to APR. The latter included telephone interviews of 50,281 persons who were 18 years of age or older. Phone calls were limited to residential households from the contiguous 48 states. For a reason that is unclear, Hawaii and Alaska were left out of the survey. Additional questions were added, about religious beliefs, affiliation and change._ Although ARIS involves less than half the number of subjects than NSRI, it is still very accurate; ARIS's margin of error is +- 0.3 percentage points for the main questions.

theyeti

beastmaster · 02-03-2003, 02:40 PM

I'm skeptical.

First, the reported "decline" is as a percentage, not in absolute numbers. It may be that the population of Xns is holding steady or slightly declining, while the population of non-theists is growing. I wouldn't call that a decline for Xnty, but a failure to grow.

Second, one would expect that the people who are defecting from Xnty (if any) are the apathetic Xns (i.e., Xns who drift in and out of religion but generally lead secular lives). I don't expect there has been any decrease in hard-core Xns - in fact, they're probably on the increase, I'd guess.

Third, religious affiliation may be erratic over time (especially among those apathetic Xns who jump on and off the religious bandwagon). It could be that the first study coincided with a temporary spike and the second study with a temporary valley. We all know that 9/11 gave a boost to religious identification. It's hard to extrapolate a steady trend from just two snapshots in time.

So, I'm not celebrating yet.

Solsticin · 02-03-2003, 06:11 PM

From the same page:

Quote:

Mark Galli, managing editor of the Evangelical magazine Christianity Today, said: "It's a clich� now to call institutional religion 'oppressive, patriarchal, out of date and out of touch.' So what else is new? I feel sorry for those people who don't think there's anything greater than themselves. It must feel like a lonely and frightening world for them. Lone-ranger spirituality is not conducive to taking us to the depths God designed us to go. It leaves out the communal dimension of faith. If you leave out the irritations, frustrations and joy that community entails, you miss something about God."

* hahah ...and I quote Penn and Teller (well, Pann, since Teller doesn't speak) BULLSHIT!

ohwilleke · 02-04-2003, 09:26 PM

I've seen the study (a very good one methodology wise) and am cautiously optimistic given the great strides made in Europe. Of course, the other trend not highlighted in that summary is the growth of fundamentalist Christianity. Basically the middle ground of Christianity is a candle burning at both ends. The are more non-religous people and more highly religious people and fewer people who just go through the motions.

Dominus Paradoxum · 02-04-2003, 11:00 PM

Do you know how many secular people there are in europe (i.e. what the percentage is)?

02-02-2003, 03:02 PM	#1
Dominus Paradoxum Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,000	Christianity on the Decline? http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

02-03-2003, 01:21 PM	#3
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Cool! Wow! Great link! This is so refreshing to see in the wake of W's attempt to Xianize the nation, especially following 9/11 and now the Columbia tragedy! Speaking of Columbia: One of the local news stations was previewing their 6PM broadcast with this, "... and after the tragedy, local residents are finding comfort in their faith. ..." I looked at the screen and said, "No, I'm not!" Sure, I was saddened, too. But I don't need some church for 'comforting' or to 'get me through' this 'tough time.' OK, rant over.

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02-02-2003, 09:44 PM	#2
oriecat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland OR USA Posts: 1,098	Not nearly fast enough! Interesting stats.

02-03-2003, 01:24 PM	#4
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	This is interesting, when in contrast some of the Christian census-takers seem to indicate otherwise. There was another thread about population statistics here.

02-03-2003, 01:39 PM	#5
admice Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: S Cal Posts: 327	It said according to ARIS - anyone know about this organization?

02-03-2003, 02:40 PM	#7
beastmaster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Madrid / I am a: Lifelong atheist Posts: 885	I'm skeptical. First, the reported "decline" is as a percentage, not in absolute numbers. It may be that the population of Xns is holding steady or slightly declining, while the population of non-theists is growing. I wouldn't call that a decline for Xnty, but a failure to grow. Second, one would expect that the people who are defecting from Xnty (if any) are the apathetic Xns (i.e., Xns who drift in and out of religion but generally lead secular lives). I don't expect there has been any decrease in hard-core Xns - in fact, they're probably on the increase, I'd guess. Third, religious affiliation may be erratic over time (especially among those apathetic Xns who jump on and off the religious bandwagon). It could be that the first study coincided with a temporary spike and the second study with a temporary valley. We all know that 9/11 gave a boost to religious identification. It's hard to extrapolate a steady trend from just two snapshots in time. So, I'm not celebrating yet.

02-04-2003, 09:26 PM	#9
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	I've seen the study (a very good one methodology wise) and am cautiously optimistic given the great strides made in Europe. Of course, the other trend not highlighted in that summary is the growth of fundamentalist Christianity. Basically the middle ground of Christianity is a candle burning at both ends. The are more non-religous people and more highly religious people and fewer people who just go through the motions.

02-04-2003, 11:00 PM	#10
Dominus Paradoxum Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,000	Do you know how many secular people there are in europe (i.e. what the percentage is)?

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