Valentine Pontifex

Here is a new version of my proposed FAQ:

<a href="http://home.mmcable.com/harlequin/evol/quotes/quotes2.htm" target="_blank">http://home.mmcable.com/harlequin/evol/quotes/quotes2.htm</a>

It has been reworked considerably and could use some criticing.

theyeti

Looks good to me!

Daggah

So you're Harlequin on Talk.Origins, LordValentine? I post simply under my real name, David Gevert. Man, that Ed is a nut, ain't he?

Valentine Pontifex

Yep which basically from my email address and web address. Both these particular nom de plumes are taken from science fiction.

cricket

Way to go; this is great! I will read more tomorrow.

Possible changes to consider? --

Instead of...

What about:

Creationists sometimes misrepresent the backgrounds of those they quote

Also -- the word "authoritively" -- should it be "authoritatively"?

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: cricket ]</p>

Dr.GH

Here are some creationist "quote mines" I have found, or had pointed out to me. They might help a few of us science types to identify creationist sources.

<a href="http://www.worldbydesign.org/evidenc.htm#title5" target="_blank">http://www.worldbydesign.org/evidenc.htm#title5</a>

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7547/cequotes.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7547/cequotes.html</a>

<a href="http://210.freeyellow.com/Evolution.html" target="_blank">http://210.freeyellow.com/Evolution.html</a>

<a href="http://id-www.ucsb.edu/fscf/library/origins/quotes/home.html" target="_blank">http://id-www.ucsb.edu/fscf/library/origins/quotes/home.html</a>

<a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/01-evol2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/01-evol2.htm</a>

<a href="http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/cequotes.html" target="_blank">http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/cequotes.html</a>

My larger point is that creationist "debaters," particularly on the internet like to (need to) fake science backgrounds with these quotes. They have not read the literature they quote, and few if any could understand it if they had read it.

Exposing the bogus source of their quotes also exposes out the bogus nature of their argument.

RufusAtticus

What? No Deathstalker?

Valentine Pontifex

That is just the tip of the iceberg. There are literally dozens of creationist quote sites.
If you are trying to find the source of any particular quote that came from online, I would suggest putting a few phrases into a seach engine.

True, but that is not an excuse. Most of them simple put in a footnote that says that x person said y at z journal on volume a, page b as if they they actually read and understood in the original. I mentioned in my essay that errors in the citation often give away this sort of copying. I seen many of these quote get the page, volume, or year wrong and find that multiple creationists make the exact same error.

It goes a long way, though keep in mind many of them refuse to listen to this. Also remember that this is not enough, in and of itself, to refute creationism.

But it is an extremely important task to demonstrate misquotes. It helps put the creationists on the defensive, it helps us with the undecided, and helps keep fellow evolutionists by being tricked by them.

If you think you have a juicy misquote, lets get it online. If it is really good, propose it as an FAQ in the talk.origins newsgroup. Some other web sites like No Answers in Genesis might publish it as well.

Valentine Pontifex

Thanks Cricket, I will edit my essay.