hinduwoman

A christian in another forum is giving the following arguments:

I have tried to explain evolutionary thoery, but he seems to have difficulty even grasping what dominant gene is.
I have directed him to talkorigins.com, but it would help if others can explain things even more clearly, particulary about the thermodynamic law, teleonomy and time limit.
Apologies if forum members are sick of explaining this stuff. :banghead:

Doubting Didymus

Have you tried inviting him to come here?

Seraphim

by Doubting Didymus

Have you tried inviting him to come here?

You think that such a good idea?

theyeti

Sure, I'll help out.


#1) Evolution is contrary to fossil evidence. (we've been digging for 150 years and not found any of the wide spectrum of change that should document the continual, steady process of mutation..)

Wrong.

#2) The time given for this is statistically impossible.. the time allowed for such mutations to occur is WAY too short, by the order of a number exceeding 300 zeros in years

Wrong!

#3) Teleonomy shows that these information systems cannot assemble themselves ex chaos. In that, there is no way for orderly systems within the anima-- the organs... to mutate separately yet somehow evolve into a working system that fits together

Wrrrrong!

#4) The 2nd law of thermodynamics is simply contrary to evolution.

Wrong. And wrong. And on top of that: Wrong.

That was easy. Call me when you find a real challenge. And send your check to:

theyeti
P.O Box 1941
Folly Beach, SC 29439

theyeti

theyeti

That would depend in part on what you want done with it, and how big it is.

theyeti

pariah

hinduwoman: is that all he has said, or has he elaborated? if thats all he has said, then ask him to elaborate on his points to prove why the are right, and then tell him to cite his sources.

edit: he is wrong on all points, so he will have trouble finding sources to back his claims up.

LeftCoast

Actually, he'll have no trouble finding sources to back up his claim, it's just that the sources are such blatant lies that it boggles the mind that anyone can take them seriously.

answersingenesis

creation research

hovind

creation research institute

lpetrich

Hinduwoman, the place is http://www.talkorigins.org

#3) Teleonomy shows that these information systems cannot assemble themselves ex chaos. In that, there is no way for orderly systems within the anima-- the organs... to mutate separately yet somehow evolve into a working system that fits together.

Otherwise known as "irreducible complexity." However, many irreducibly-complex systems can be constructed with the help of some equivalent of scaffolding.

If one tries to build a true arch with stone blocks or bricks, it will collapse unless one has some scaffolding to hold the partially-built arch in place. But when the arch is done, that scaffolding can be removed, and the arch will stay up.

It is thus irreducibly complex, but there is a pathway toward its existence that does not require placing all of its pieces in place at once.

hezekiah jones

#2) The time given for this is statistically impossible.. the time allowed for such mutations to occur is WAY too short, by the order of a number exceeding 300 zeros in years

Yeah, like ~10,000 fundie years is enough to account for both the currently flourishing diversity and the extinctions.

#4) The 2nd law of thermodynamics is simply contrary to evolution.

That one's easy. Even a dumbass like me knows the 2LoT applies to closed systems. Thankfully the earth is receiving all manner of electromagnetic energy from all over the damn place (chiefly that yellow/green ball we like to call sol invictus).

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

THe frist parts of this are outright false. Paleontologists and geologists find lots of evidence for evolution. Statistics? Oddsmaking does not prove or disprove anything--I can create a result with less probaility than whatever odds you assign evolution in minutes by using dice.
Outright lie. This is literally equivalent to saying we don not observe the effects of universal gravitation.
Source? I want to know the EXACT odds that they place on this, and what parameters they use, just so I know how many dice I need to roll. I probably have enough to do it--my current probability of getting a result if I roll them in a non-specific order is 1*10^350 or so--and if I specify the order, I'll get a much, much, much lower result (due to having in excess of 400 dice, I have 400! possible orders of dice...this is a very large number (on the order of 10^750 or so), I can make it to be over 10^12000 based on the number of dice and the sides that they have.)
Snowflakes. Rivers. Erosion patterns. Order e chaos. You just were disproved on evidentiary grounds here.
Take a SINGLE undergrad physics course of at least 220 level--they disabues you of any delusions of this.
For starters, so long as energy is added to a system, entropy can decrease.
Secondly, all livng things increase the amount of entropy around them quite a bit by heating the air and having chemical reactions that produce waste that must be eliminated, etc.
Thirdly, the second law only states that the sum total of entropy in a system that has no additional enery being applied must increase--this does not mean there can be no localized decreases--as long as they are offset by greater increases, all is hunky-dory.