Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DarkBronzePlant · 08-07-2003, 09:21 AM

If Jesus was God/God's son, the why was he Jewish?

This question just occurred to me; I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me before. But seriously, Jews don't believe that Jesus was the son of god. That's sort of a defining characteristic of being Jewish. So then, wouldn't Jesus have not believed that he was the son of god?

emotional · 08-07-2003, 09:29 AM

Jesus didn't believe he was god. The passages such as "I am He" in John are late attributions. "Why do you call me good? Nobody is good but God alone" says Jesus in one of the earlier gospels.

Jesus was deified by his followers after his execution.

DarkBronzePlant · 08-07-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
Jesus didn't believe he was god. The passages such as "I am He" in John are late attributions. "Why do you call me good? Nobody is good but God alone" says Jesus in one of the earlier gospels.

Jesus was deified by his followers after his execution.

That much I believe. But those who diefied him after his death are the Christians who believe him to be god/son of god. Perhaps I ought to go to the Christian boards to see how they all reconcile this.

emotional · 08-07-2003, 10:27 AM

The original Christians were Jews. Like Magus is. Then came Paul and drew all the non-Jews in. Annulling the Torah laws for the Gentiles' sake was the cleverest thing Paul did.

Mageth · 08-07-2003, 10:35 AM

It's even more complicated. Jesus was, umm, conceived out of wedlock (he was thus a "bastard"). According to the OT, he apparently wouldn't be a Jew because he would be prohibited from entering "into the congregation of the LORD."

Deuteronomy 23:2 A bastard [one of illegitimate birth] shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

DarkBronzePlant · 08-07-2003, 11:00 AM

I get that the original Christians were Jews, but as Jesus' birth was sort of the defining moment, at least insofaras the distinction between Christianity and Judeism, would Jesus at that point have been a Christian?

DarkBronzePlant · 08-07-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
It's even more complicated. Jesus was, umm, conceived out of wedlock (he was thus a "bastard"). According to the OT, he apparently wouldn't be a Jew because he would be prohibited from entering "into the congregation of the LORD."

Deuteronomy 23:2 A bastard [one of illegitimate birth] shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

I'm sure the Christians would argue that, since god claims to have had his way with her (isn't boastfulness a sin?

), that Jesus wasn't technically a bastard...

emotional · 08-07-2003, 11:02 AM

The way the Jews have it: you're a Jew if your mother is Jewish. So Jesus was a Jew, and Magus is a Jew, but most Christians have broken the matrilineal chain and are not Jews anymore.

Judaism is all about purity of blood.

Mageth · 08-07-2003, 11:06 AM

I'm sure the Christians would argue that, since god claims to have had his way with her (isn't boastfulness a sin? ), that Jesus wasn't technically a bastard...

God would had to have himself been a Jew, and married to her, for him not to fall under Deuteronomy 23:2.

The way the Jews have it: you're a Jew if your mother is Jewish.

Not necessarily, according to the verse I quoted in Deuteronomy.

abe smith · 08-07-2003, 12:32 PM

and if, hence, he never had a human father, then "he" was a FEMALE; because he hadn't any YYYYYYYYY = MALE chromosome; which any human zygote can get ONLY from (his) MALE HUMAN PARENT. "God" (nowadays) is a spirit and so has not a body; and so has not testicles etc and does not emit spermatozoa; and does not send male Y-chromosome-bearing gametes to fertilize human ova. Ask Cardinal Ratzinger to explain it all for you.

08-07-2003, 09:21 AM	#1
DarkBronzePlant Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Posts: 3,568	If Jesus was God/God's son... If Jesus was God/God's son, the why was he Jewish? This question just occurred to me; I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me before. But seriously, Jews don't believe that Jesus was the son of god. That's sort of a defining characteristic of being Jewish. So then, wouldn't Jesus have not believed that he was the son of god?

08-07-2003, 12:32 PM	#10
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	"If Jesus was ...god's son...." and if, hence, he never had a human father, then "he" was a FEMALE; because he hadn't any YYYYYYYYY = MALE chromosome; which any human zygote can get ONLY from (his) MALE HUMAN PARENT. "God" (nowadays) is a spirit and so has not a body; and so has not testicles etc and does not emit spermatozoa; and does not send male Y-chromosome-bearing gametes to fertilize human ova. Ask Cardinal Ratzinger to explain it all for you.

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08-07-2003, 09:29 AM	#2
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Jesus didn't believe he was god. The passages such as "I am He" in John are late attributions. "Why do you call me good? Nobody is good but God alone" says Jesus in one of the earlier gospels. Jesus was deified by his followers after his execution.

08-07-2003, 10:27 AM	#4
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	The original Christians were Jews. Like Magus is. Then came Paul and drew all the non-Jews in. Annulling the Torah laws for the Gentiles' sake was the cleverest thing Paul did.

08-07-2003, 10:35 AM	#5
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	It's even more complicated. Jesus was, umm, conceived out of wedlock (he was thus a "bastard"). According to the OT, he apparently wouldn't be a Jew because he would be prohibited from entering "into the congregation of the LORD." Deuteronomy 23:2 A bastard [one of illegitimate birth] shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

08-07-2003, 11:00 AM	#6
DarkBronzePlant Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Posts: 3,568	I get that the original Christians were Jews, but as Jesus' birth was sort of the defining moment, at least insofaras the distinction between Christianity and Judeism, would Jesus at that point have been a Christian?

08-07-2003, 11:02 AM	#8
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	The way the Jews have it: you're a Jew if your mother is Jewish. So Jesus was a Jew, and Magus is a Jew, but most Christians have broken the matrilineal chain and are not Jews anymore. Judaism is all about purity of blood.

08-07-2003, 11:06 AM	#9
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I'm sure the Christians would argue that, since god claims to have had his way with her (isn't boastfulness a sin? ), that Jesus wasn't technically a bastard... God would had to have himself been a Jew, and married to her, for him not to fall under Deuteronomy 23:2. The way the Jews have it: you're a Jew if your mother is Jewish. Not necessarily, according to the verse I quoted in Deuteronomy.

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