Starboy

I think I would have to label a fundamentalist as anyone who thinks that any part of their religion must be applied to everyone. I think that would make most religious fundamentalist.

Starboy

Jacobus Altus

Bill Snedden wrote about defining ‘fundy’ :

“1) affirms belief in the Bible as the (literally) inerrant Word of God
2) defers to Biblical precepts, morals, commandments, history, and science in all matters
3) orders their life according to Biblical standards and norms
4) affirms a belief that everyone *should* affirm 1-3, above (that they are "true.") “

I would almost completely agree with your definition for ‘fundy’, excepting #2 in part. I really don’t think that any funamentalist has a respect for objective truth in the fields of history and science. Fundies seem to have no hesitation in denying historical and scientific findings when they conflict with their view of the Bible’s ‘truths’, and that in the face of overwhelming evidence. Or, did I misunderstand your comment?

I would add to Bill’s four points:

5) won’t hesitate to promulgate a known falsehood to further a religious view.

That is in the spirit of Martin Luther, who wrote that “a good strong lie” in the service of the faith was a fine thing in God’s view. A recent example. I sometimes tune our television to our several religious cable channels for entertainment during commercials on the regular channels, and about a week ago I was treated to two minutes or so of a ‘prophecy conference’ about Iraq. A panelist (prophet?) was explaining how prayer for US and British troops had saved them from an Iraqi poison gas attack. It seems that God had changed the direction of prevailing winds in Kuwait (or southern Iraq) from notherly to southerly during the initial attack. Further, in all of recorded history the wind direction had been from the north, and prayerful intervention had induced God to make the southerly wind during the attack, thereby endangering those intending to launch the gas, and protecting our troops..

WWW.Weather.com, weeks after God’s intervention, reported winds from the south, and other directions. The panelist’s claim was easily refutable. True fundies are likely to repeat this falsehood for years.

Having viewed the fine Web site at http://www.religioustolerance.org over several years and even supported it financially, I would opine from the many statistics there that true fundies comprise between 8-15% of the total US population. That would make fundies a minority of both Christians (77% of US in 2001) and the total population there.

Your thoughts?

Best, Jacobus Altus

lpetrich

What in particular did he have in mind?

This seems like someone calling Rush Limbaugh or Fox News too politcally liberal.

Pyrrho

I am reminded of the words attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (a Protestant Christian):

http://www.serendipity.li/cda/niemoll.html

And consider the supposed words of Jesus in Revelation 3:

Too bad "liberal" Christians do not tend to learn very well from history. But then, why should anyone expect people who are fundamentally inconsistent with themselves to be able to learn from history?

Rational BAC

Rhea ---------- and Pyrrho---

I think I have stated this before---possibly on another thread--

Anyway, I think that the comparaison between the United States (with over 200 years of a democratic republic with guaranteed protection of minority viewpoints)-----------

to the Weimar Republic of Germany post WW1 ----------no history by the populace of any kind of democratic rule, trying out representative, parliamentary democracy only for a very short period during an unfortunate time in their history with terrible economic problems. -----Plus add a very unusual and charismatic leader.---

Is not a viable comparaison at all.

Granted we should take the German experience seriously, but we can also take it too seriously. The "It can't happen here" mentality is a valid and defendible one as far as the US of A. Of course we have to "watch our back" so to speak-----but it is also possible to become somewhat (not going to use the p---- word because I seem to get dumped on for that one)---Let us say unnecessarily concerned.

And Voltaire, who supposedly made that statement "defend to my death --etc" (just attributed to him anyway because people thought it was something Voltaire might say),-------------lived during pre-revolutionary Monarchist France. Much different time, much different historical context.
--------------------------------------------------------

Pyrrho---I never particularly cared for that particular verse in the Bible. ( As a cherry picker I can choose out things.)------------I think a Goldwater Republican would agree perfectly with it though.

Rational BAC

This nation tends to swing back and forth historically to being slightly to the right of center to slightly to the left of center.

Right now we are in a "rightward conservative" trend. It will swing back the other way as it has aways done. The one thing for certain about Americans is that we tend to rebel against ourselves every generation. We get bored very quickly with the "latest trend" and switch to a different trend. And our youth have always been famous for making those changes and those swings happen.

If you want to "overly concern" yourself with current events. Then have at it. But I won't fight every little petty battle with you or for you. ------nor will most Americans. Live with it. Fight your own petty battles.

If something really important happens, tell me----------------and I and almost all Americans will fight right along side you.

Starboy

Rational BAC you are living in a bubble. There are lots of things being suppressed by the fundies as we speak. How about stem cell research? Human cloning? How about abortion? How about the environment? Population control?

I am sure you can think of a many more. You have your head stuck in the sand.

Starboy

Rational BAC

Starboy----

In the long run, none of that will really be stopped.

Give it 20 years---stem cell research, cloning will be common as dirt. You can never really stop scientific progress. Postpone it for a little while maybe---but never stop it.

Abortion is safe while 70% of Americans support it (at least first trimester abortion). Try as they may the 30% of American conservatives can not really call the shots for the other 70%. It just won't happen.

Same with population control and the environment.

Starboy

Rational BAC, I agree with you. It cannot be stopped in the world. Some country like Japan or South Korea or who knows will take the ball and run with it. When that happens please explain to all your great grand kids why the US is a third rate country.

Starboy

Rational BAC

But we are getting a little off subject.

And I know the moderators are slightly less than tolerant of that if it goes on too long.

Any other definitions of what determines a fundamentalist, literalist Christian?