Gurdur

Hey, you look good, Ronin !

Anyway, I made my own atheist T-shirt years ago; occasionally I wear it to cathedrals when I visit them (me being me).

I don't need no gods --- I have my conscience and brain

DMB

I visited Cologne cathedral over 40 years ago, but I found the interior garish and tatty. For a really wonderful catholic cathedral, I would recommend Chartres, which is not large, but simply stunning.

England has many former catholic churches and cathedrals which now belong to the CofE. My absolute favourite is Tewkesbury Abbey.

Worldtraveller

Thanks for the tech info guys!

Cheers!
-Lane

DoubleDutchy

You do, really ? Then you will like this one:


Bedsermoen

Toen de deken van de domkerk te Aken
werd gevraagd of een zoen
het zieleleven schâ kon doen
Bleek de deken het kussen te laken.

(John o'Mill)

abe smith

Y'know.... Dealing with that group who keep wanting /trying to run everybody else, including us, might become considerably easier not to mention healthier,....
if everybody stopped calling them "The Church" and "The Catholic Church" etc etc. OF COURSE they want you to call them that! They want you to perceive them, *their SECT* as a real entity, so that they can bully you into letting them declare AUTHORITY over you/us. The US Bishops meeting now said exactly this yesterday.
IT AIN"T SO!. THey are not some magical *god*(damned)-
appointed PLatonist "entity"; they, the so-called "Roman Catholic" affinity-group or religious sect, are just another squad of human beings practising some weird practises and asserting some outlandishly-irrational and unsubstantiable beliefs. NO-ONE has put them in-charge!
Let's STOP letting them and their self-appointed bosses try to assert dominion over us. They, human beings just like us, HAVE no authority to tell anyone anything.
Henceforth then, let's refer to them as "the Roman Catholic religious sect".(equal to all the other weirdo religious sects). And let's persuade the media to see them in those terms. (Fat chance: too much MONEY at stake.)
Try this, and see how liberating it is!

PaladInChrist

Nobody except God Himself...but thats ok, abe knows better...

Matthew - Chapter 16:13-19

When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Biff the unclean

Afraid that the definition of sect is:
While it is true that in the midst of a previous set of scandals the church shattered into a thousand shards and fragments of churches, it it's self is not a sect. It is The Church that all of these Sects are based on.
NO-ONE has put them in-charge!
Actually the emperor of Rome Theodosius the Great put them in charge. And they stayed in charge past the fall of Rome and into modern times.
Of course their beliefs are outlandish, irrational and unsubstantiable (is that a word?) but they are not just a part of the problem. They are the root of the problem and are not to be underestimated.

Biff the unclean

Nobody except God Himself...but thats ok, abe knows better...
Abe does know better.
Paladin let me give you a challenge that I took on when I was a sophomore in college and a member in good standing of the university's Catholic Society. Find the evidence that Jesus actually lived and prove that God exists.

livius drusus

I doubt Abe accepts the Catholic interpretation of a metaphor-laden Bible passage as evidence of much of anything, PaladIn. Biff, if you wish to engage in a discussion on the historicity of Jesus, please start a topic in BC&H. If you wish to discuss proofs for god, please start a topic in EoG.

Now, returning yet again to the actual topic of the thread, I have donated many a coin to churches, monasteries, convents both cloistered and exposed. As Gurdur pointed out, they are historical, artistic, cultural marvels, a huge part of the cultural patrimony of any country. Not only do I not have qualms about donating to upkeep funds and the like, but I believe it is unjust not to contribute.

Biff the unclean

Not only do I not have qualms about donating to upkeep funds and the like, but I believe it is unjust not to contribute.

I don't know how they do it in Germany but in the USA and Ireland the RCC does not work its accounting as a normal corporation would. "While there are many pockets there is only one pair of pants." Money that you contribute for a specific purpose will go into a general fund.
It's sort of like attaching a note to your tax form, "Please use this cash for the Peace Corps and Space Exploration but don't buy any H bombs with it--Your pal, Biff." My heart might be in the right place but the money I've sent goes into a general fund to be allocated where the Government decides and not where I've directed.