Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Worldtraveller · 06-17-2003, 01:53 AM

Well, not really, but while I agree with Robert Heinlein's assessment of it being the "largest, oldest, least productive industry mankind has ever invented", I also feel that in some places, the church is doing a good job preserving part of that history.

I was visiting the cathedral in Cologne, and donated money to the support of the cathedral.

I hope this doesn't make me a bad atheist.

So for all the theists out there, know that just because we don't believe, doesn't mean we don't care.

For what it's worth, the cathedral in Cologne is a very beautiful, gothic cathedral that is the archetypal gothic cathedral in the world really, and it's worth visiting just for the architecture and artwork contained within.

Or if you just want a workout, you can climb the 900+ stairs to the top of one of the spires....

-Lane

06-17-2003, 07:21 AM

If you're a bad atheist, there's no hope for me. Not only do I like a lot of religious architecture, I also like some religious paintings and sculpture and I love a lot of church music.

As I see it, when I visit an impressive mediaeval church, I think of my ancestors who were flogged and taxed to the hilt to get the thing there in the first place. In a real sense, such buildings belong to the people.

Shake · 06-17-2003, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DMB
If you're a bad atheist, there's no hope for me. Not only do I like a lot of religious architecture, I also like some religious paintings and sculpture and I love a lot of church music.

As I see it, when I visit an impressive mediaeval church, I think of my ancestors who were flogged and taxed to the hilt to get the thing there in the first place. In a real sense, such buildings belong to the people.

Well, I'm not so much into the paintings and sculpture, although I appreciate that I could never produce such works. I also wouldn't say that I "love a lot of church music," but I am a big fan of works for the organ, many of which happen to be religious pieces (hymns and such). Particularly, the works of J. S. Bach and Charles-Marie Widor. Each wrote some very powerful works. I do love the architecture of the old cathedrals (even newer ones like St. Patrick's in NYC). I'd say I enjoy these things because I respect the talent and skill that went into creating them, not for any religious reason.

PaladInChrist · 06-17-2003, 11:03 AM

Thanks for supporting us!

Writer@Large · 06-17-2003, 11:06 AM

I'll have you all know that I've contacted the EAC* leadership, and they're revoking your memberships immediately. Supporting churches indeed!

--W@L

*EAC: Evil Atheist Conspiracy

Ronin · 06-17-2003, 11:45 AM

A wondrous and and most ancient lair of my pack brethren.

~ may you now contain the blessing of Enkidu, offspring of silence, sky-bolt of Ninurta.

Thank you for supporting us.

I ate Pascal's Wafer · 06-17-2003, 01:57 PM

Yup, the IPU will definitely smite you now!!

Actually, I think it's a good thing to support stuff like this. The art and architecture associated with the church is an important part of our history, and it's a noble cause to support it even for secular reasons. That you support the architecture and history of the church doesn't necessarily mean that you support the beliefs which went into producing these things.

-Nick

Godless Dave · 06-17-2003, 03:00 PM

Dammit, I've been to that cathedral twice and I never knew you were allowed to climb up to the top of the spires!

I see no problem with giving financial support to help renovate a historic building, no matter what culture it came from. I want to visit the Forum in Rome, but that doesn't mean I support the (original) Roman religion or system of government.

On the other hand, can you be sure all your money will go only to building renovation? Did you get a receipt? Was your donation to a Catholic organization, a historical society, or the German government?

Biff the unclean · 06-17-2003, 06:18 PM

Dear Lane, thank you so much for your generous contribution to the Roman Catholic Church. Rest assured that it will be put to good use in either the D.D.D.F. (The Deviant Deists Defense Fund, which allows The holy Fathers, who are being persecuted by the nasty families of small children, to attend retreats in other parts of the world) or to repair the bishop's limousine that was damaged in the so called hit and run yesterday.
We know what the box said that you put your donation in, but we are sure that you won't mind, and God thinks it's a good idea.
We are so glad you enjoy our graphic presentation of the Cathedral at Cologne. We've been distracting people with it's beauty for years. It kept them from thinking about the indulgences we were selling and it is our fondest hope it will distract you too.
Your pal, the Pope

Worldtraveller · 06-18-2003, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Dear Lane, thank you so much for your generous contribution to the Roman Catholic Church. Rest assured that it will be put to good use in either the D.D.D.F. (The Deviant Deists Defense Fund, which allows The holy Fathers, who are being persecuted by the nasty families of small children, to attend retreats in other parts of the world) or to repair the bishop's limousine that was damaged in the so called hit and run yesterday.
We know what the box said that you put your donation in, but we are sure that you won't mind, and God thinks it's a good idea.
We are so glad you enjoy our graphic presentation of the Cathedral at Cologne. We've been distracting people with it's beauty for years. It kept them from thinking about the indulgences we were selling and it is our fondest hope it will distract you too.
Your pal, the Pope

ROTFLMAO
Dude, I mean guy with the funny hat...err.. I mean....oh forget it. I didn't see the limo, honest. I was looking up at the cathedral and just accidentally scrapped my keys all along the side/back/other side....

Lane

PS how do I insert 'non standard' smileys?

06-17-2003, 01:53 AM	#1
Worldtraveller Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,834	I supported the Catholic Church! Well, not really, but while I agree with Robert Heinlein's assessment of it being the "largest, oldest, least productive industry mankind has ever invented", I also feel that in some places, the church is doing a good job preserving part of that history. I was visiting the cathedral in Cologne, and donated money to the support of the cathedral. I hope this doesn't make me a bad atheist. So for all the theists out there, know that just because we don't believe, doesn't mean we don't care. For what it's worth, the cathedral in Cologne is a very beautiful, gothic cathedral that is the archetypal gothic cathedral in the world really, and it's worth visiting just for the architecture and artwork contained within. Or if you just want a workout, you can climb the 900+ stairs to the top of one of the spires.... -Lane

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06-17-2003, 07:21 AM	#2
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	If you're a bad atheist, there's no hope for me. Not only do I like a lot of religious architecture, I also like some religious paintings and sculpture and I love a lot of church music. As I see it, when I visit an impressive mediaeval church, I think of my ancestors who were flogged and taxed to the hilt to get the thing there in the first place. In a real sense, such buildings belong to the people.

06-17-2003, 11:03 AM	#4
PaladInChrist Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: A Paladin In Hell Posts: 114	Thanks for supporting us!

06-17-2003, 11:06 AM	#5
Writer@Large Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,198	I'll have you all know that I've contacted the EAC* leadership, and they're revoking your memberships immediately. Supporting churches indeed! --W@L *EAC: Evil Atheist Conspiracy

06-17-2003, 11:45 AM	#6
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	A wondrous and and most ancient lair of my pack brethren. ~ may you now contain the blessing of Enkidu, offspring of silence, sky-bolt of Ninurta. Thank you for supporting us.

06-17-2003, 01:57 PM	#7
I ate Pascal's Wafer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,460	Yup, the IPU will definitely smite you now!! Actually, I think it's a good thing to support stuff like this. The art and architecture associated with the church is an important part of our history, and it's a noble cause to support it even for secular reasons. That you support the architecture and history of the church doesn't necessarily mean that you support the beliefs which went into producing these things. -Nick

06-17-2003, 03:00 PM	#8
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	Dammit, I've been to that cathedral twice and I never knew you were allowed to climb up to the top of the spires! I see no problem with giving financial support to help renovate a historic building, no matter what culture it came from. I want to visit the Forum in Rome, but that doesn't mean I support the (original) Roman religion or system of government. On the other hand, can you be sure all your money will go only to building renovation? Did you get a receipt? Was your donation to a Catholic organization, a historical society, or the German government?

06-17-2003, 06:18 PM	#9
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Dear Lane, thank you so much for your generous contribution to the Roman Catholic Church. Rest assured that it will be put to good use in either the D.D.D.F. (The Deviant Deists Defense Fund, which allows The holy Fathers, who are being persecuted by the nasty families of small children, to attend retreats in other parts of the world) or to repair the bishop's limousine that was damaged in the so called hit and run yesterday. We know what the box said that you put your donation in, but we are sure that you won't mind, and God thinks it's a good idea. We are so glad you enjoy our graphic presentation of the Cathedral at Cologne. We've been distracting people with it's beauty for years. It kept them from thinking about the indulgences we were selling and it is our fondest hope it will distract you too. Your pal, the Pope

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