Shadow Wraith

As a resident of a highly conservative metropolitan area (Aiken-Augusta, SC-GA), I get commentary from the local fundies who insist that homosexuality is a choice and is "curable." I don't buy this a bit, since I never "chose" to be straight, and I know no gay people who claim to have "chosen" to be gay. However, I wanted to ask what the general scientific consensus is for what the cause of sexual preference, whether for the opposite sex or the same sex, is. Also, is there any relevant literature available for this so that I might use it against the local homophobes? Thanks.

~Shadow

(P.S. for the mods: Since this is mostly related to the biology of sexuality, I thought this would be the most appropriate board. If it isn't, please move this to the appropriate board so I can get the necessary responses. Thanks.)

Dr.GH

Well, I am sorry that things haven't changed in Agusta since I left in 1985. There is a good deal of writing in the psych literature about gender selection. The question remains if it can penetrate the fundy brain shell.

Some information that I found somewhat useful explaining homosexuality to redneck, homophobic assholes was that there was NO social advantage provided to gays. There are many socially created DISADVANTAGES targeting gays. I know of zero homosexuals who have NOT TRIED TO BE/ACT hetrosexual. I saw homosexuals who were desperate to change their sexual feelings towards the opposite sex. Desperate to the point of suicide. This is no "lifestyle" choice.

BTW, when I was in Agusta (around 1982) there were just two gay bars, one for the men, and one for the women. There was a tertiary syphilis problem for gay males. I helped start the "movement" that gay males should demand their right to full medical care at the Richmond County Health Clinic. The real motivation was that one of the county public health nurses had a gay nephew she was worried about. This was the best solution we came up with.

God Fearing Atheist

There is alot of evidence that gay men have a smaller third interstitial nucleus in the anterior hypothalamus than straight men; the part known to play a role in sexual differences (LeVay, 1993).

-GFA

Salmon of Doubt

I saw a tv show interviewing an American scientist studying homosexuality in goats and other animals once. It also had opinions from a few other scientists, and the general consensus seemed to be that it was determined by testosterone levels in the womb at a certain period of the fetus's development. I don't know, environment may play some part, but considering how many people say they knew they were gay when they were very very young, it may not be a major factor.

SimplyAtheistic

I think sexuality is determined by choice. I have no problem with it, but to say it is biological would assume so many things. If it is biological, that would be assuming somehow the body would know what a male was supposed to look like before it even saw one. Homosexuals will tell you they were attracted to men before performing any sexual acts with them, so it resides in the consciousness of the human, and no part of the body is complex enough to determine a thought for you. Your sex drive is purely chemical, you smell the odors and feel the pleasure, therefore you commit the deed. But choosing which sex to perform with is something that is developed as you as a person develop. Someone may grow up only loving the same sex, but that could be a result of the way his mind has developed, that does NOT mean that he has some hard wiring in his body that won't allow him to be straight. Then again, I have no problems with homosexuals, so this isn't and arguement I think christians could use, since there is no reason to change homosexuals in the first place.
Jake

Coragyps

There certainly appears to be a strong genetic component to hetero/homo -sexual behavior:
From Frontline. There is quite a lot on the web on the subject, but unfortunately the vast majority of the sites seem to have an axe to grind - either gay activists or gay-bashers - and it's tough to find many that you can be sure are dispassionate. But the numbers above speak mighty strongly for at least partly biological roots of sexual preference.

EvolvEarth

Numerous studies have shown that homosexuality is a combination of genes and environment. You'd most likely be gay before you hit grade school, and something in the environment switches the genes on and changes your attractions more to the same sex type.

JakeJohnson, genes help shape our attraction for people of the opposite sex before we even see them which is why chimpanzees are mainly heterosexual and bonobos are predominantly bisexual. It really depends on your genes and environment.

Coragyps explains this quite well.

SimplyAtheistic

Yes I understand that genes help shape our attraction for the opposite sex, but they do so by chemical means. The smell of the opposite sex or tase (:-)) can trigger receptors in the brain to stimulate your sex organs. On the other hand, gay people will tell you they became attracted to the same sex before experiencing chemical stimulation (the actual act of smelling the person, tasting him, etc..) which gives evidence to the fact it was something developed in his mind. No one can be for sure, and maybe genes do play a role in your sexuality, I am just a bit cautious to say they play a major role.
Jake

Wounded King

How can that possibly be true Jake, how can these gay people of yours not have been chemically stimulated? Did they wear facemasks until they suddenly saw someone they liked and decide to have a sniff? You seem to be switching between an attraction to a specific sex and then to a specific individual and saying they are the same thing, i.e. because he fancied someone before he smelt them therefore he knew he liked men before he was ever chemically exposed to male pheromones.

There is quite a large body of literature in a few model organisms dealing with honosexuality. Both drosophila and mice have had quite extensive work showing both genetic and environmental factors at work. Testosterone is certainly know to induce lesbianism in mice but as far as I am aware in humans the main factor hypothesised to have a pre natal effect is cortisol, a stress related hormone.

Salmon of Doubt

Jake, I have to say here, I am a lesbian but it is certainly not by choice! Do you know how hard it is for me to find a girlfriend?! If I had a choice in the matter, I would certainly choose to be attracted to men more than women, it's far easier that way!

I also am a bit confused by what you're saying. First you say that people are gay by choice, then you say that genes affect our attraction by producing chemicals. So which is it? The brain being affected by chemicals (which is what I think happens) is certainly not the same as making a choice.