Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dimossi · 11-11-2002, 07:03 AM

I thought maybe some of you here would like to explain to the author of this article why hate is linked to religion:

Quote:

The Bill Moyers public television agency flew me to New York to join a circle of theologians and scholars discussing a baffling question: Why is religion � which universally teaches love, forgiveness and brotherhood � entwined in so much murder and hate around the world?

<a href="http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=5930588&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7 581&rfi=6" target="_blank">full article here</a>

Quote:

If anyone knows why religion, which espouses kindness, is stained with so much gore, I wish you'd explain it to me.

The author, James A. Haught, is editor of The Charleston Gazette in West Virginia. He is author of two books, "Holy Horrors" and "Holy Hatred," on religious atrocities and persecution. Readers may write to him at: The Charleston Gazette, 1001 Virginia St. East, Charleston, W.Va. 25301, or via e-mail at haught@wvgazette.com

sakrilege · 11-13-2002, 03:48 AM

I don't think he's actually read the bible. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Celsus · 11-13-2002, 04:07 AM

I think he's asking a rhetorical question. From my own perspective, insularity within religion is the first step towards intolerance, and from there, violence is only a short distance away. If I have to name only one grievance with religion in general, it would have to be insularity. The kind of theist who keeps themselves and their family away from people of other moral systems never learns to appreciate diversity, tolerance, freedom of expression, and everything else a modern society needs. When they are forced into contact with people of other value systems, and are unable to cope, the knee-jerk reaction tends to be even greater intolerance. So inasmuch as religions like Christianity and Islam teach insularity, hatred and violence are only a short step away.

Joel

lunatic.retired · 11-13-2002, 06:02 AM

...and what difference would reading the bible make????
All people of faith need to understand that what is written in the bible is of little interest to non-believers. What we are interested in is peoples actions.

The stronger a societies faith is, the more likely that society is to act in a hostile manner to 'those who will not believe', or those who believe in the 'wrong' god.

IMO the bible is a vile book which does not promote love and kindness, it promotes, demands in fact, worship of a god with extreme punishment for those who disobey.

Janaya · 11-13-2002, 06:19 AM

Another "benefit" of insularity is that believers would not have many reasons to question their beliefs. If all the people around you are constantly affirming your beliefs then it is much easier to hold onto them.

Outsiders introduce different thinking, and if a person doesn't just blindly condemn them then those different viewpoints must be examined to some extent, if only to refute them. Once that happens then the believer might have to admit that their beliefs could be wrong. It is much easier for them to simply avoid the situation. Hence, one reason for intolerance.

MortalWombat · 11-13-2002, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lunatic.retired:
<strong>...and what difference would reading the bible make????
All people of faith need to understand that what is written in the bible is of little interest to non-believers. What we are interested in is peoples actions.

The stronger a societies faith is, the more likely that society is to act in a hostile manner to 'those who will not believe', or those who believe in the 'wrong' god.

IMO the bible is a vile book which does not promote love and kindness, it promotes, demands in fact, worship of a god with extreme punishment for those who disobey.</strong>

I think that was sakrilege's point. If the article writer actually read the bible, he shouldn't be surprised when some religious people do the things they do.

Yellum Notnef · 11-13-2002, 06:55 AM

Why is James A. Haught going through all this trouble when he could just come hare and have Radorth explain to him (in a few posts peppered with insults and wise cracks) that these people responsible for all the gore are either atheists,followers of another vile and false religion or not "True Christians".

[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: Fenton Mulley ]</p>

NOGO · 11-13-2002, 08:37 AM

Insularity is a small part of the problem. At the root of the problem is ideology and the concept of absolute truth.

Vesica · 11-13-2002, 09:02 AM

Quote:

IMO the bible is a vile book which does not promote love and kindness, it promotes, demands in fact, worship of a god with extreme punishment for those who disobey.

I would have to say it is about 1/2 and 1/2. Yes, it is filled with terrible incidents of slaughter and some rather inflamatory opinions. But there is that whole emphasis on love, mercy and kindness to all others.

It is not really hard to find examples of organizations united by common belief (i.e. governmental systems, religions, societies) that have used the idea of 'Us' and 'Them' to 'justify' persecution.

This author must have been having a naive day....

Starboy · 11-13-2002, 09:23 AM

Here you have these very sincere and thoughtful religious people asking themselves how is it that religions that supposedly teach love and kindness result in so much hate and death. They scratch their heads and are baffled and yet the most obvious answer escapes them. Could it be because religion doesn�t work?

Starboy

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11-13-2002, 03:48 AM	#2
sakrilege Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Folding@Home Godless Team Posts: 6,211	I don't think he's actually read the bible. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

11-13-2002, 04:07 AM	#3
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	I think he's asking a rhetorical question. From my own perspective, insularity within religion is the first step towards intolerance, and from there, violence is only a short distance away. If I have to name only one grievance with religion in general, it would have to be insularity. The kind of theist who keeps themselves and their family away from people of other moral systems never learns to appreciate diversity, tolerance, freedom of expression, and everything else a modern society needs. When they are forced into contact with people of other value systems, and are unable to cope, the knee-jerk reaction tends to be even greater intolerance. So inasmuch as religions like Christianity and Islam teach insularity, hatred and violence are only a short step away. Joel

11-13-2002, 06:02 AM	#4
lunatic.retired Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: desolation row Posts: 58	...and what difference would reading the bible make???? All people of faith need to understand that what is written in the bible is of little interest to non-believers. What we are interested in is peoples actions. The stronger a societies faith is, the more likely that society is to act in a hostile manner to 'those who will not believe', or those who believe in the 'wrong' god. IMO the bible is a vile book which does not promote love and kindness, it promotes, demands in fact, worship of a god with extreme punishment for those who disobey.

11-13-2002, 06:19 AM	#5
Janaya Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 226	Another "benefit" of insularity is that believers would not have many reasons to question their beliefs. If all the people around you are constantly affirming your beliefs then it is much easier to hold onto them. Outsiders introduce different thinking, and if a person doesn't just blindly condemn them then those different viewpoints must be examined to some extent, if only to refute them. Once that happens then the believer might have to admit that their beliefs could be wrong. It is much easier for them to simply avoid the situation. Hence, one reason for intolerance.

11-13-2002, 06:55 AM	#7
Yellum Notnef Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Gone Posts: 4,676	Why is James A. Haught going through all this trouble when he could just come hare and have Radorth explain to him (in a few posts peppered with insults and wise cracks) that these people responsible for all the gore are either atheists,followers of another vile and false religion or not "True Christians". [ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: Fenton Mulley ]</p>

11-13-2002, 08:37 AM	#8
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	Insularity is a small part of the problem. At the root of the problem is ideology and the concept of absolute truth.

11-13-2002, 09:23 AM	#10
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Here you have these very sincere and thoughtful religious people asking themselves how is it that religions that supposedly teach love and kindness result in so much hate and death. They scratch their heads and are baffled and yet the most obvious answer escapes them. Could it be because religion doesn�t work? Starboy

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