Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JERDOG · 06-14-2003, 07:17 AM

Let's say that a little girl is hit by a tuck and seriously injured. She is in ICU in the hospital barely hanging on to life.
What good would praying do in a situation like this?
If the answer is to help the little girl get better, then why doesn't god help her to get better any ways regardless of prayers or not?
Are we to believe that god is sitting in heaven waiting for prayers to come in before he helps the little girl? If so how is that an admirable action?

Spaz · 06-14-2003, 07:25 AM

Well you have to remember god's divine plan too, so essentially prayers will only be answered if they're part of god's plan, but if they're part of god's plan then it'll happen anyway, regardless of people praying. Also, praying can conflict with a person's free will as well. So, essentially, all prayer is pointless, because of god's will and man's free will. This is a part of the religion that I never got, just another example of doublethink I guess...

SimplyAtheistic · 06-14-2003, 10:21 AM

If I remember correctly, a christian told me praying was a sign of faith in god, and he would award you accordingly. Also, christians say pray does work. I agree with Spaz, they say that god will answer the prayer if it is part of his plan, but then again that makes prayer a pretty useless tool. I would love to hear a christian explain this one.
Jake

Calzaer · 06-14-2003, 10:23 AM

I think it's part of the "ask and you shall recieve" thing... but if that's the case, why (A) are prayer ever unanswered, and (B) why do people believe that MORE people praying for the same thing is more effective?

ComestibleVenom · 06-14-2003, 11:16 AM

Praying would inflict more suffering upon that little girl so she can earn more merit points in heaven!

Fantastic, but I'd rather just break out the power tools and start torturing people for their eternal benefit.

(I think I'm onto something here.)

DamagedGoods · 06-14-2003, 11:48 AM

I think praying allows people who feel helpless in a situation like the little girl in ICU to feel like they're actually helping in some way. In other situations, it allows people to feel like they're contributing to something without having to actually do anything.

It's like excusing yourself from showing up to give emotional support to the little girl's family, or helping them pay for the hospital visit or a specialist if they need it. "Oh, I'm praying, so I am helping. I wish I could do more."

scombrid · 06-14-2003, 02:26 PM

Well some guy on TBN (apparently he had some people show up in a healing line in wheelchairs that left the healing line in wheelchairs...DOH

and was explaining why the healing didn't work) said that the people that pray and don't get heeled don't have True Faith. It's not enough just to pray and say, I hope this works. You have to know it will work. I'm guessing he'd apply that to intercecery prayer as well.

Biff the unclean · 06-14-2003, 03:18 PM

Hey I know of this guy, we'll just call him Mr "G" who prayed that he might have a son. And sure enough the next day he had one. Now if that doesn't show the power of prayer then nothing does. And the kid, we'll call him "P," actually saved Mr G when he was swallowed by a whale. Such a nice child, you could say he was a "real" boy. Funny looking nose, but a good kid.

Ennazus · 06-14-2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:

I think praying allows people who feel helpless in a situation like the little girl in ICU to feel like they're actually helping in some way. In other situations, it allows people to feel like they're contributing to something without having to actually do anything.

I'm with Damaged Goods.

After a recent foot surgery which left me with my foot casted for 6 weeks , I had several Christian friends praying for me. Not one offered to run an errand, bring a meal or vacuum a floor. I posted here in frustration wondering if their prayers were going to make a gallon of milk appear in my refrigerator. No milk showed up, but luckily my atheist mother was around!

Quote:

It's like excusing yourself from showing up to give emotional support to the little girl's family, or helping them pay for the hospital visit or a specialist if they need it. "Oh, I'm praying, so I am helping. I wish I could do more."

Damaged Goods, I'd think you were reading my mind, if I believed in that sort of thing!

Rational BAC · 06-14-2003, 04:17 PM

I shouldn't really bother, and I know I will get seriously trashed for this one, but I am going to get in on this thread. Have not any rational explanation for it (obviously belieing my name)-

--------------BUT-------

Prayer does work sometimes. I have no rational explanation for it, so do not ask me how it works, but it does amazingly work -----sometimes.

Sometime when any of you atheists are in very deep difficulty, try prayer. What the hell you got to lose anyway? (Pascal's wager and all that outmoded crap).

You just might be pleasantly surprised.

God bless you all. ----(excuse my French on that one).

06-14-2003, 07:17 AM	#1
JERDOG Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lousyana with the best politicians money can buy. Posts: 944	So what exactly does praying do? Let's say that a little girl is hit by a tuck and seriously injured. She is in ICU in the hospital barely hanging on to life. What good would praying do in a situation like this? If the answer is to help the little girl get better, then why doesn't god help her to get better any ways regardless of prayers or not? Are we to believe that god is sitting in heaven waiting for prayers to come in before he helps the little girl? If so how is that an admirable action?

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06-14-2003, 07:25 AM	#2
Spaz Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 6th Circle of Hell Posts: 1,093	Well you have to remember god's divine plan too, so essentially prayers will only be answered if they're part of god's plan, but if they're part of god's plan then it'll happen anyway, regardless of people praying. Also, praying can conflict with a person's free will as well. So, essentially, all prayer is pointless, because of god's will and man's free will. This is a part of the religion that I never got, just another example of doublethink I guess...

06-14-2003, 10:21 AM	#3
SimplyAtheistic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Posts: 503	If I remember correctly, a christian told me praying was a sign of faith in god, and he would award you accordingly. Also, christians say pray does work. I agree with Spaz, they say that god will answer the prayer if it is part of his plan, but then again that makes prayer a pretty useless tool. I would love to hear a christian explain this one. Jake

06-14-2003, 10:23 AM	#4
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	I think it's part of the "ask and you shall recieve" thing... but if that's the case, why (A) are prayer ever unanswered, and (B) why do people believe that MORE people praying for the same thing is more effective?

06-14-2003, 11:16 AM	#5
ComestibleVenom Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 2,320	Praying would inflict more suffering upon that little girl so she can earn more merit points in heaven! Fantastic, but I'd rather just break out the power tools and start torturing people for their eternal benefit. (I think I'm onto something here.)

06-14-2003, 11:48 AM	#6
DamagedGoods Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Norfolk, VA, USA Posts: 219	I think praying allows people who feel helpless in a situation like the little girl in ICU to feel like they're actually helping in some way. In other situations, it allows people to feel like they're contributing to something without having to actually do anything. It's like excusing yourself from showing up to give emotional support to the little girl's family, or helping them pay for the hospital visit or a specialist if they need it. "Oh, I'm praying, so I am helping. I wish I could do more."

06-14-2003, 02:26 PM	#7
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	Well some guy on TBN (apparently he had some people show up in a healing line in wheelchairs that left the healing line in wheelchairs...DOH and was explaining why the healing didn't work) said that the people that pray and don't get heeled don't have True Faith. It's not enough just to pray and say, I hope this works. You have to know it will work. I'm guessing he'd apply that to intercecery prayer as well.

06-14-2003, 03:18 PM	#8
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Hey I know of this guy, we'll just call him Mr "G" who prayed that he might have a son. And sure enough the next day he had one. Now if that doesn't show the power of prayer then nothing does. And the kid, we'll call him "P," actually saved Mr G when he was swallowed by a whale. Such a nice child, you could say he was a "real" boy. Funny looking nose, but a good kid.

06-14-2003, 04:17 PM	#10
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	I shouldn't really bother, and I know I will get seriously trashed for this one, but I am going to get in on this thread. Have not any rational explanation for it (obviously belieing my name)- --------------BUT------- Prayer does work sometimes. I have no rational explanation for it, so do not ask me how it works, but it does amazingly work -----sometimes. Sometime when any of you atheists are in very deep difficulty, try prayer. What the hell you got to lose anyway? (Pascal's wager and all that outmoded crap). You just might be pleasantly surprised. God bless you all. ----(excuse my French on that one).

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