chimaira

Hello all .

En effect the Bible confirms Coran and Coran confirms the Bible, study that together if you want it .

genesis 11 v 31: Térach took Abram, his/her son, and Batch, wire of Haran, wire of his/her son, and Saraï, his daughter-in-law, woman of Abram, her son. They left Ur in Chaldée together, to go to the country of Canaan. They came until Charan, and they lived there.

Consequently, Abraham could not have been a Jew because Ur is an area of Iraq. He was more one Arab whom a Jew, I am explained...

Universalis encyclopaedia :


Ur, today Tell Al-Muqayyar, in Iraq).Ville sumérienne of low Mésopotamie, formerly located close of the mouth of Euphrate, identified with the fatherland of Abraham - Our in Chaldée - of Genèse.Les older vestiges, who go up with the thousand-year-old Life, revealed a Neolithic occupation in the form of a large agricultural village.

Secondly, the "Jewish" name came after the existence from Judah, Abraham in the Bible is called "Hebrew". CH genesis 14 v 13: A fuyard announced it in Abram, the Hebrew; this one lived among the oaks of Mamré, Amoréen, brother of Eschcol and brother of Aner, who had made alliance with Abram.

Hebrew who means inter alia man on other side of Euphrate.

Universalis encyclopaedia :

The people of Israel were thus named because of his origin "beyond the Euphrate river".

The descendants of Jacob are done called Israel in CH Genesis 32 v 28: It still says: your name will not be any more Jacob, but you will be called Israel; because you fought with God and men, and you were victorious.

Since then "Israel" comes from the combat of Jacob with God, therefore Israeliens are apelés thus from this fight. Take a Bible and you will note that "Israel" appears for the first time in CH Genesis 32 v 28. Déscendants Jacob being composed of twelve tribes. Judah was called "Jewish" so that only the descendants of Judah name yourself by this name, of aillor the distinction is asser current in the Old-will, an example have often speak about ,have often speak about the 2 tribes most quoted in the Bible; the house of Lévi and the house of Judah.


Another example is that Moïse, was tribe "Levite" according to the Exodus 6:16-20. Exodus CH 6 v 16-20: Here names of wire of Lévi, with their posterity: Guerschon, Kehath and Merari. The years of the life of Lévi were of one hundred trente-sept years. - Wire of Guerschon: Libni and Schimeï, and their families. - Wire of Kehath: Amram, Jitsehar, Hébron and Uziel. The years of the life of Kehath were of one hundred trente-trois years. - Wire of Merari: Machli and Muschi. - They are the families of Lévi there, with their posterity. Amram took for woman Jokébed, her aunt; and it gave birth to Aaron, and Moïse to him.

Thus Moise (psl) also was not a Jew, the Jewish name according to the bible is not a reflexion "of an organized religion", but of a tribe, a branch of ancestors "the tribe of Judah.

peace

Clara Listensprechen

Yes, all this is pretty much true, but I must point out how difficult your message is to read for the 1stLanguage English speaker. I also must point out that I've discovered that not a whole lot of people at this website know enough about Islam to even know that it's just as much an Abrahamic religion as Judaism and Christianity.

It is, and your posting is most informative in this regard, in its detail.

Peut-être votre premièr langue est français? (Pardon mon français, c'est trop mal, ha). Ah, vous écrirez de france....
Bienvenu!

I agree that Abraham was not a Jew--he was an Amorite pagan, but there are a lot of Muslims that believe he was a Muslim, too. There are some people you can't convince of the truth no matter how hard you try, alas. It's also true that there was no such thing as Irak at the time of Abraham, so you can't really call him an Iraqi either, for that matter.

Iraq is a Muslim holy land for many, many reasons, primarily to the Shiya for those other reasons. Iraqi Ur, Saudi Mecca and Medina were just the beginning.

What you say about Israel is also very true, but due to the current political strife in the Palestine region, there are a lot of inaccurate tales told these days about that, too. Thanks for telling the story straight.

chimaira

thank you for your intervention and forgive me I am in France and I much the English but I éspère does not include/understand to improve me before long .
I éspère that you are nevertheless able to include/understand me or at least the general direction of my subjects .

Indeed you are right one is all wire of Abraham father of believing, but Abraham was Moslem in the direction or that it were subjected God has it were Moslem Moslem bus wants to say, subjected has the will of God, like all the prophets of aillor .

even darling as a Jean CH 14 v 28: the Father is taller than me.


thank you for your acceuil

lpetrich

I also find it hard to read chimaira's English.

For my part, I think that Abraham was an essentially mythical figure, like (say) Achilles or Hercules; he lived before the Exodus and Conquest, both of which are mostly mythical.

Also, his story and the story of his offspring are essentially ancient Israel's origin myth; his son Isaac had sons Jacob and Esau; Jacob in turn had the ancestors of the Twelve Tribes, one for each tribe. Actually, it was thirteen, with Jacob's son Joseph having Ephraim and Manasseh, and with the tribe of Levi being a special tribe without a territory.

However, all the ethnicities that have emerged in better-documented times have emerged from full-sized populations, not from single couples. In the Middle East itself, both the modern-Israeli and the modern-Palestinian ethnicities have emerged from such populations. And archeological and genetic evidence typically shows the continuous presence of such populations.

So we can place the twelve-tribe ancestor account alongside similar stories of ethnic-group ancestors from elsewhere.

And the Biblical account of the patriarchs, as they are called, shows some anachronisms. They reportedly had big herds of domestic camels and they reportedly traded fragrant resins. However, camels and the resin trade became common only in the 1st millennium BCE, about a millennum after when the patriarchs supposedly lived.

Imagine some account of Leonardo da Vinci describing him as "Googling" for information on some of the inventions he had worked on.

That's what the patriarchs' camels are like -- LdV's Googling.

chimaira

ipetrich "For my part, I think that Abraham was an essentially mythical figure, like (say) Achilles or Hercules; he lived before the Exodus and Conquest, both of which are mostly mythical.

Also, his story and the story of his offspring are essentially ancient Israel's origin myth; his son Isaac had sons Jacob and Esau; Jacob in turn had the ancestors of the Twelve Tribes, one for each tribe. Actually, it was thirteen, with Jacob's son Joseph having Ephraim and Manasseh, and with the tribe of Levi being a special tribe without a territory.

chimaira .
Yes,I am French forgive me if you want it .
I knows very well that the patriarchs mentioned in the Bible are mythical figures, but that does not pose problems for me because the names of patriarchs and biblical history such as the innondation and Moise make also parts of the stories in the Hindu védas for example .

in my opinion and I say well in my opinion, that they are myths or not that does not do anything to me because the truth if it from God I come believes in a God. Do the concept of single God come well from ancient Egypt and then? So that the books copis not the myths paiens one would need only these books copis not the myths paiens it would be necessary that these books contradict the Egyptian myths and company?

It would be necessary that the religions monotheists do not make mention of the patriarchs who find themselves in other myths so that this true religion oneself? I do not think.

Peace .

Clara Listensprechen

chimaira, je comprend un peu français parce-que mon père viennent du Quèbec, Canada. Mais il-y-a bien longtemps, alors...bien LONGtemps, ha. Si tu utilizer un mot français pour un mot englais, je comprend. Alors--maintenant en englais, pour les autres...

Be that as it may by agreement here, there is nonetheless archaeological explorations that verify certain Biblical events even if the personnages may very well be mythical. It's not unusual for authors of the time to write in verbal flourishes about actual events, actual people. "The Flood" actually did happen, although it didn't inundate the entire planet as billed. Archaeologic geology has determined that a certain land bridge was breached and the sea got overfilled...Dead Sea, I think, but at the late hour I'm writing this, I'm not sure without going to look it up right now.
Well, you believe the way you believe because you believe it, regardless of what books you choose to use, and it is your own choice, after all. The concept of a single God is still a strange concept to current Christians, Jews, and Muslims, actually. What is believed now about lesser deity-type creatures still leaves God in charge, to be sure, but they make the Abrahamist religions more closely resemble old pagan faiths with a chief god over minions and lesser gods. Jinn, angels, demons, devils, saints, whatever. Chief God over lesser entities with superpowers.

chimaira

hello will clara magic to know you, Canada is a beautiful country with the assistance of God I would visit this country.

each one its truth it have there, they coisissent Christianity the judaism the shintoism taoism etc... the man prefers to believe what it prefers true being that have say.

The universal flood mentioned in the Bible geologically did not take place, I it concoit, but a mythical figure does not prevent that it existed ,Priestley Elvis in 2 millenium will be only one myth and the historian will put the question of sound éxistense and this, although knows better than they have that it with really existed.

Bye

Volker.Doormann

With the end of the sumerian culture in 2200 BCE in Mesopotamoa, the semitic culture grows in that land between the rivers. The Semites was described as of olive colored skin. Their law code from Hammurabi doormann.org/hammur.htm has a lot of similar laws against womans and religious procedures as the law code from India the 'Manu_Smriti' doormann.org/manuslaw.txt , were the Semites got their name. Abram and Sara are taken as symbols - not as humans - out of the Indian Vedas from the god Brahm and his woman and sister Sarasvati doormann.org/the0.htm and doormann.org/the4.htm.

PreIslamic culture in Arabia was also an Indian Vedic culture and was taken blind to Islam by Muhammed, who was not able to read, as then Islamic rituals. Mostly no one in Islam knows this origin roots.

BTW. The god of the Semites about 1000 BCE was a moon god, and his symbol the horns of a bull was in origin the ascending crescending moon in the EAST some 30 minutes to the sunrise. This shape of the crescend moon is interpreted as horns of a bull.

This symbol of the moon in the EAST direction (='Orient') was worshiped by the Semitic people and is the origin of the ritual to worship the direction of Mecca.

No one of that figures of the Pentateuch was a real human person. Like the trinity of the Indian gods Brahm, Vishnu and Shiva as priciples of the creating, preserving and distortion as the spiritual properties of the planets like Venus, which is the Hebrew Ashera, it was a worship to these spiritual properties of the planets, which has taken place. Jupiter as principle of justice is mentioned in the bible as Melchizedek = 'melech tsedek 'The king of rightheness' and also the tradition to celebrate the exact fullmoon in spring as Passover, because the physical nature growing is on a turning point on Full moon (little more cold then on Newmoon) is taken from Hinduism tradition 4000 years ago and was the base for fasting then.

Al these traditions have an origin astrological meaning and are not known by the mainstrem science today.

Volker

Volker.Doormann

correction:

.. also the tradition to celebrate the exact fullmoon in spring as Passover, because the physical nature growing is on a turning point on Full moon (little more warm than on Newmoon) is taken from Hinduism tradition 4000 years ago and was the base for fasting then.

Volker

Clara Listensprechen

Enchanté.
It's a little too cold for me, though. But I hear that the Ice Carnival is just the sight to see in Canada, when you go.
Agreed. One may also say that one's God is what one makes him.
Ha. I can hear it now, maybe God someday saying--
Elvis Has Left The Universe.

Quite so, as time goes by, the Elvis Sightings become more mythical and gargantuan in size. No different than Biblical figures and their stories, no doubt.