emotional

The Argument from Evil seems attractive at first, but when I think about it, it doesn't look like a good disproof of God. It is said that the good God, since He created diseases, suffering, struggle and arms races between animals, cannot exist. This seems reasonable.

However, have you thought of the alternative? The Argument from Evil basically says that, for God to be called good, He ought to have created nothing short of a Disneyland! Sure He could have created the world without suffering and struggle, with all harmony and lovey-dovey symbiosis. Would you really appreciate that kind of creation? Could you ever grow and advance in that kind of world?

There are good reasons to disbelieve in God, but I don't think evil is one of them.

KidFury

WOW!

You are sooo right!

You have just opened my eyes to the incredible opportunity to grow and advance that this world is offering me.

I will be sure to pass on your thoughts to the next woman who has been raped. Better yet, why don't I go out and rape a woman right now to give her this wonderful growth opportunity that evil brings us!

And all this time I thought that when you said ''Deliver us from evil'' you actually meant it! Next you will be probably be telling me that this phrase is taken out of context and that bible scholars agree that it actually means ''Bring us evil so we can learn oh Lord!"

I am going to church right now to see if I can't get some of that growth stuff to happen to me. Who knows? maybe I'll get in a car crash with a bus full of kids and then really have the opportunity to be an instrument for the Lord!

emotional

Argumentum ad emotionem.

I repeat: what is your alternative to the present state of affairs? Disneyland?

KidFury

What's so wrong about Disneyland? Let me remind you that Eden was exactly that.

Are you saying that God created Evil for our own Good? That He trapped us into biting that apple so he could have an excuse for that ''growth opportunity'' nonsense you were about earlier?

emotional

It is, like Christian heaven, a world where you get bored out of your ever-loving mind.

I'm just trying to be sceptical about a particular argument, that's all. As for good, you wouldn't recognise it without evil. I don't think there could possibly be such a thing as an all-good creation. People just wouldn't recognise it as such.

KidFury

Actually, it was argumentum ad sarcasticum... there is a slight difference

yguy

I would say yes. You can't develop courage absent danger, nor love without the ability to betray.

If He "trapped us", then He's the devil. Comfy with that, are ya?

KidFury

Oh! So now Evil is there for entertainement value?

Let's see, a world where there is no murder, mayhem and destruction. Hmmm how would I possibly recognise that? Oh! That's right: By there being no war, mayhem and destruction that's how!

KidFury

So, If I decide to become a terrorist? Am I not just fulfilling God's plan by taking upon myself the role of the Evil Bad guy from whom the ''Good'' people will learn precious lessons about courage and sacrifice.

Again, what's to stop me from going out right now and killing someone in the name of courage-devellopment?

Of course i am, If the God of the bible exists then that is precisely what he is: An Evil Demon. I mean He actually does what I jokingly say i would do. He wipes out entire nations to test the so-called courage and faith of a 600 year old drunk! He hardens people's heart in order to provide more ''growth opportunity" for an already oppressed people! He sends down death angels from his sky palace to kill innocent children to make a point!

If this God exists than it is a God of evil that creates good only to make his evil more effective by giving hope to people!

yguy

Yes, you are - just as Pharaoh and Judas Iscariot did. I believe it was Goethe's Mephistopheles who said, "I desire to do evil, but accomplish only good."

Conscience - knowing that would only be an excuse for the satisfaction of murderous desires.

Not sure what you refer to here.

So what's the problem? Pharaoh hated God, so God gave him leave to hate Him even more.

Where do you get the idea they were innocent?

You have it backwards. He allows evil to exist that good may get better.