cricket

One doesn’t use their own religion to comfort others. A compassionate person doesn't, anyway. Comfort is intended for the grieving family, not for the one delivering the message.

“Hell is full of good men who did their best” is the sign our local baptist church posted after the death of my father. At least they were telling the truth as they believed it. What was much more troubling was when people “consoled” me by saying “He is in heaven now” because I knew it couldn’t be true – that if there was a god, he was in hell, for being non-christian. It was callous of them to assume they could say it. Can't the president be better than that? Hasn't he got an Amy Vanderbilt or Judith Martin or Emily Post type advisor who can say Mr Bush! This isn't about you!

From statistics from NSA etc we can gather that a majority of the astronauts were atheist/agnostic so we’re looking at (probably) one or two Christian. But it really makes no difference, because the kind, sensitive, caring, reasonable thing to do is to make no assumptions about their religious faith or that of the families.

I mean, why assume anything, IF the message is meant to comfort families? Do you go to funerals for Jewish, atheist, Buddhist friends and blather about Jesus? Or would that be rude and insensitive? If you can’t find a common ground, is it so illogical to offer condolences based on just the sorrow we feel after such a tragedy? Can’t Bush have said simply that he was stunned and so terribly sorry, and what a loss for us all, and how grateful he was for the astronauts’ contributions and how courageous they were and so on? Why proclaim that the dead are in heaven if it may make somebody’s kid feel that much worse? Bush is a boor. Of course he can believe what he wants, and speak freely about it, but it’s not the way you console families you don’t know – if in fact that was his intention.
Nothing feels worse to a grieving agnostic than to hear people say “your father is in heaven” when you know he is not, since he was atheist. Kids whose parents just met a violent death don’t Christian’s “comfort” to make them feel worse. You know your parent is either either in hell or else nowhere at all, and the Christian’s messages can kids worry that it is hell. I know, they’ll get over it, but you’d think a President could show a modicum of class in this situation.

It. does. not. comfort. them.

Unless they believe as he does.

It's not right to turn it into a self-serving message.

And I think you’re an ass.

Amie

7 astronauts died today and all some of you can focus on is the fact he brought up "God" ?!?!

Colander of Truth

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fromtheright
You folks are really nuts. You accuse Christian conservatives of being fanatics and zealots but you should listen to yourselves going off on the President of the United States using the Christian religion--like it or not a vehicle of comfort ...

And you think Christians are callous and hypocritical.
/[QUOTE]

Vehicle of comfort? You mean Christ is a Cadillac Escalade?

cricket

Have you read any of my other posts about the astronauts?

I am "focusing" on it here, pardon me, because I see it is the thread topic.

Godbert

So you wouldn't mind if your funeral was turned into a celebration of, say, satanism?

fromtheright

cricket,

And I think you’re an ass.

KMA, I've been called worse.

fromtheright

When we assemble togethe, fellow citizens, to consider the state of our beloved country, our just attentions are first drawn to those pleasing circumstances which mark the goodness of that Being from whose favor they flow, and the large measure of thankfulness we owe for his bounty.

Thomas Jefferson, Second Annual Message

Some at IIDB: "That sorry bastard, how dare he!"

SLD

Just a quick note. I'm no supporter of GWB and certainly no Christian, but I think FTR is right here. His words were in no way offensive. It was a simple generic quote from the old testament that dealt with the stars. I may not agree with his view that all of the Astronauts are now in Heaven, but Bush has every right to speak those views of his. If someone was offended by it, I say they are little too sensitive.

R/

SLD

cricket

FTR-
This would have been inappropriate and probably ineffective, if Jefferson intended this message to comfort the grieving families of dead astronauts.

And had he meant it as such, this would matter.

SLD-
Oh, I thought maybe you knew.

That's what kids are when their parents get vaporised in thin air, or scattered in charred pieces across three states.

Been there, done that. Well, not exactly that, but y'know. It's exactly what the astronauts' kids will be for a while - they'll be "a little too sensitive."

You'd think the president and others might care enough to show some sensitivity here. Would it be so difficult to modify the message?

Ronin

'The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.'

-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

I say, as a counter only to promoted assertions, that there are no god(s)...and if any are offended by that then it is they that are too sensitive.

(emphasis mine) is exclusionary to those citizens that do not hold to such nonsensical supernatural claims.

Other words, free from the burdens of dogma, are available to provide solace and comfort to all.

Let each individual follow their own personal rituals and behavior in the privacy of their minds and homes.

In this manner there can be true, fair and lasting peace, strength and unity.