Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bialar Crais · 04-10-2003, 02:11 AM

Got a wee bit silly question here. I spend a lot of time at the local gym (5-6 days/week). Does wonders for my bloodsugar levels (have type-1 diabetes since 22-23 yrs back) that does.

I've seen a lot of, well, talk about "natural alternatives to anabolic steroids/pro-hormones", one of those products are called IsoStak and claims to work wonders. Is there any glimmer of truth to these claims? Are there any scientific studies done to test these kinds of products? After all, when something looks to good to be true, it often isn't true and my natural curiosity have gotten the better of me, and what better place to find out the truth than at IIDB.

On the same note. HGHs. Not a day pass by without a spam on HGHs coming into my mailbox.*mutter...kill the spammers, kill the spammers...*, claiming all sorts of wonderful effects and citing such scientific and reliabel sources as Oprah. So...any scientific studies done on this area?

sakrilege · 04-10-2003, 04:16 AM

Well, one place to start is QuackWatch where I did a search on Isostak without success so I then did a generic steroid seach. There might be something in the results that might help.

HTH

Bialar Crais · 04-10-2003, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sakrilege
Well, one place to start is QuackWatch where I did a search on Isostak without success so I then did a generic steroid seach. There might be something in the results that might help.

HTH

Thanks. Quackwatch seems to be a very nice resource....

ps418 · 04-10-2003, 06:28 AM

"All natural" usually means "totally untested." Most of the anabolic supplements that have been tested in the past have offered very little if any benefit in terms of muscle mass or resistance training. I looked on PubMed for papers on the ingredients in IsoStak, which are mostly just soy isoflavones, and found little evidence that they will produce any gains in muscle mass in humans, much less that they will produce the types of gains you'd see with anabolic steroids. This article on BodyBuilding.com takes a negative view of soy isoflavones.

Patrick

RoddyM · 04-10-2003, 08:19 AM

There are no health food shop alternatives to steroids.

Sustanon 250 injected twice monthly for three months will increase your muscle mass by 5 to 10 kg by the end of that same three months if you work out effectively 5-6 days a week.

If you are a bit of an asshole, and especially if you are a drinker you greatly increase the chances of being arrested over the three month period. Otherwise the only side effect is likely to be increased glucose tolerance.

ps418 · 04-10-2003, 08:35 AM

According to this article, potential side effects of Sustanon 250 include far more than simply increased glucose tolerance:

Quote:

The side effects tend to resemble other types of testosterones but it tends to not be as harsh. The typical side effects can include the following: nausea, leukopenia, symptoms resembling a peptic ulcer, acne, edema (water retention), excitation or increased aggressiveness (commonly referred to as roid rage), sleeplessness, chills, vomiting, diarrhea, hypertension, prolonged blood clotting time, increase in libido. Females had reported: menstrul irregularities, post-menopausal bleeding, swelling of the breasts, hoarseness or deepening of the voice, enlargement of the clitoris, and water retention. Men had reported: cases of impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, inhibition of testicular function, oligospermia, and bladder irritability. Some people that take sostanon 250 have reported "flu like" symptoms as well. These symptoms include a higher than normal fever, stomach aches, being tired, etc. These side effects tend to go away after a few days and should not deter you from your goals of gaining muscle mass!

Patrick

RoddyM · 04-10-2003, 09:08 AM

You are unlikely to experience any negative effects from Sustanon 250 injected 6 times over a three month period.

Bialar Crais · 04-10-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RoddyM
There are no health food shop alternatives to steroids.

Sustanon 250 injected twice monthly for three months will increase your muscle mass by 5 to 10 kg by the end of that same three months if you work out effectively 5-6 days a week.

If you are a bit of an asshole, and especially if you are a drinker you greatly increase the chances of being arrested over the three month period. Otherwise the only side effect is likely to be increased glucose tolerance.

Well, I'm actually not interested in trying these things, neither the "natural-outa-the-health-shop-stuff" nor prohormonmes, nor steroids nor anything else... I was just curious how far from the truth the claims about the products where...

As I said, when something sounds a bit too good to be true, it prolly isn't... Especially when it says how scientifically proven their product is, but can not give a single reference to any studies...

But, in any case, thanks for all the answers.

Godot · 04-11-2003, 08:14 AM

If I may wade in with my two cents worth (and I suspect my position may be self-evident)...

Any supplement, whether nutritional or ergogenic is unnecessary outside of certain clinical situations or for the highest extremes of elite athletes. Claims made by the manufacturer do not need to be validated by the FDA. Therefore, they are free to say just about anything they want to on their product labels. Scientific claims made for these products are rarely based on methodologically sound clinical trials, or even on human subjects. The "results" they infer are extrapolated from animal studies, or are simply made up to make the product more attractive to consumers.
Caveat Emptor is certainly the flavour of the day WRT ergogenic aids. Unless reported in proven scientific literature, the claimants are the modern-day equivalent ot snake-oil salesmen.

Jackalope · 04-12-2003, 03:58 AM

There's a big deal made about anabolic steroids causing bad temper, but compared to corticosteroids it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad. Corticosteroids are used as anti-inflammitories to treat asthma, autoimmune diseases, and certain types of pediatric cancers. Sleeplessness, severe mood swings, and even psychosis can occur. However, since these steroids are usually not abused, one doesn't hear about the 'roid rage caused by them.

I just grinned, because I've heard people claim that only anabolic steroids can cause 'roid rage. Oh, how wrong they are. They've just never had a 1000mg IV push of methylprednisolone before. Of course, I was so happy I could breathe again and didn't feel like my ribs were going to collapse that I fell asleep. And the fact that I could walk the next day also helped keep me from being totally homicidal from the steroids. But it ended up being an abject lesson in the endocrinology of the fight/flight mechanism.

04-10-2003, 02:11 AM	#1
Bialar Crais Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lule�, Sweden. Posts: 354	Natural alternatives to steroids? Got a wee bit silly question here. I spend a lot of time at the local gym (5-6 days/week). Does wonders for my bloodsugar levels (have type-1 diabetes since 22-23 yrs back) that does. I've seen a lot of, well, talk about "natural alternatives to anabolic steroids/pro-hormones", one of those products are called IsoStak and claims to work wonders. Is there any glimmer of truth to these claims? Are there any scientific studies done to test these kinds of products? After all, when something looks to good to be true, it often isn't true and my natural curiosity have gotten the better of me, and what better place to find out the truth than at IIDB. On the same note. HGHs. Not a day pass by without a spam on HGHs coming into my mailbox.mutter...kill the spammers, kill the spammers..., claiming all sorts of wonderful effects and citing such scientific and reliabel sources as Oprah. So...any scientific studies done on this area?

04-12-2003, 03:58 AM	#10
Jackalope Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hayward, CA, USA Posts: 1,675	'roid rage There's a big deal made about anabolic steroids causing bad temper, but compared to corticosteroids it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad. Corticosteroids are used as anti-inflammitories to treat asthma, autoimmune diseases, and certain types of pediatric cancers. Sleeplessness, severe mood swings, and even psychosis can occur. However, since these steroids are usually not abused, one doesn't hear about the 'roid rage caused by them. I just grinned, because I've heard people claim that only anabolic steroids can cause 'roid rage. Oh, how wrong they are. They've just never had a 1000mg IV push of methylprednisolone before. Of course, I was so happy I could breathe again and didn't feel like my ribs were going to collapse that I fell asleep. And the fact that I could walk the next day also helped keep me from being totally homicidal from the steroids. But it ended up being an abject lesson in the endocrinology of the fight/flight mechanism.

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04-10-2003, 04:16 AM	#2
sakrilege Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Folding@Home Godless Team Posts: 6,211	Well, one place to start is QuackWatch where I did a search on Isostak without success so I then did a generic steroid seach. There might be something in the results that might help. HTH

04-10-2003, 06:28 AM	#4
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	"All natural" usually means "totally untested." Most of the anabolic supplements that have been tested in the past have offered very little if any benefit in terms of muscle mass or resistance training. I looked on PubMed for papers on the ingredients in IsoStak, which are mostly just soy isoflavones, and found little evidence that they will produce any gains in muscle mass in humans, much less that they will produce the types of gains you'd see with anabolic steroids. This article on BodyBuilding.com takes a negative view of soy isoflavones. Patrick

04-10-2003, 08:19 AM	#5
RoddyM Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 183	There are no health food shop alternatives to steroids. Sustanon 250 injected twice monthly for three months will increase your muscle mass by 5 to 10 kg by the end of that same three months if you work out effectively 5-6 days a week. If you are a bit of an asshole, and especially if you are a drinker you greatly increase the chances of being arrested over the three month period. Otherwise the only side effect is likely to be increased glucose tolerance.

04-10-2003, 09:08 AM	#7
RoddyM Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 183	You are unlikely to experience any negative effects from Sustanon 250 injected 6 times over a three month period.

04-11-2003, 08:14 AM	#9
Godot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,335	If I may wade in with my two cents worth (and I suspect my position may be self-evident)... Any supplement, whether nutritional or ergogenic is unnecessary outside of certain clinical situations or for the highest extremes of elite athletes. Claims made by the manufacturer do not need to be validated by the FDA. Therefore, they are free to say just about anything they want to on their product labels. Scientific claims made for these products are rarely based on methodologically sound clinical trials, or even on human subjects. The "results" they infer are extrapolated from animal studies, or are simply made up to make the product more attractive to consumers. Caveat Emptor is certainly the flavour of the day WRT ergogenic aids. Unless reported in proven scientific literature, the claimants are the modern-day equivalent ot snake-oil salesmen.

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