pariah

i say humans are no different than any other animal, that our society creates morals and rights, that they arent something natural.

i was talking to a member of PETA, who claims that animals have the same rights as humans. I asked him what those rights were, he answered. So I asked him who gave the animals those rights, who gave the humans rights. No answer...except that humans are no different from any other animal and that our rights should extend to them. i say our rights only apply to our society.

what do you think?

pariah

heh, just realized this is the 666th thread

SimplyAtheistic

You are absolutely correct, the rights that are men are born with, according to our constitution, are nothing more than conventions of our society to protect ourselves. But then again, so are morals and ethics. In all actuality though, ethics are a favorable byproduct of a higher intelligence, since we find it wrong to kill our species will last a much longer time.
Jake

abe smith

Your rights are whatever you can grab & enforce.

Jamie_L

Our morals and rights are created by us, but that doesn't make them unnatural. They are product of the natural world as much as we are. These rights/morals are not intrinsic to us. That is, we don't have rights just by virtue of our existence. We have rights because we agree that we have rights.

Animals can have rights if we choose to give them rights. There are arguements that can be made for extending some level of moral, ethical, and rights considerations to animals, and I'd say some of those arguments are good ones. However, the animals have no intrinsic rights due to their existence any more than we do.

Jamie

Tyler A DiPietro

Morality, ethics, and rights, although noble, are nothing but human constucts. We only have rights because we, as a society, agree to behave in a certain fashion. There is no karma, god, or anything else preventing you from stealing, killing, raping etc. You only agree not to steal, rape, murder in order not to have those same things done to you.

-Tyler-

BroadCircle

Tyler,
If what you say is true can an individual criticize the actions or activities of a society?

BroadCircle

mhc

A right can only be borne by a moral agent. A right is a claim, and such a claim presupposes participation in an ethical system.We have rights because ethically, they are a good thing. The kind of animals WE are means that there are better and worse conditions under which we flourish. Rights reflect an acknowledgement of the better conditions.
So, in regard to PETA, I think the question becomes: Are any other animals moral agents?

azazel

When we evolved and started inventing, we sort of traded strenths and weaknesses. We gained a conscience as a result of cohabitation, and law,god, etc. from developing complex language. We don't have rights. They are relative. And in some societies even, the "universal" right to life is not recognized. Screw rights. Rights, Law, Civilization; the price of having hot/cold running water, tv, and global food distribution. Cowards(Weaklings or Civilized people even, depending on your viewpoint) claim to have rights. The Brave (Foolhardy, Stupid, Animalistic, blah blah) take what they can and decide what is right and wrong.

-"You have a right to free speech, but never be stupid enough to use it."
-"Murder is a crime, unless it's done by a policeman (ergo, justified)"

Screw the examples, they're too banal

yguy

If rights are given by society, children have no inherent right to life.

Everybody comfy with that?