sabalseed

When I was a young child I remember finding out that santa claus was my parents and not some magical guy with a sleigh.I was happy and relieved to learnthis because the mechanics of how santa could function were beginning to bother me.It didnt seem logical.I was raised by Christian parents,and attended sunday school.After learning about santa I kept waiting for my parents to tell me the real scoop on God also,and of course they never did because they couldnt.From this early experience on I have thought about God and related subjects independently,not accepting everything others said,though I would listen to their viewpoints.I used to feel guilty for not believing in the same version of God as "everyone else".I have realized that the "holy" info in the Bible or other sacred texts is really distilled human wisdom taken down through the ages.The wisdom is real,but the attribution to "God" is the same as my parents inability to explain it.No one really knows.Due to my way of thinking I really enjoyed Bokonon,the god Kurt Vonnegut made up and the rediculous cosmology of "The Hitchikers Guide".I am also fascinated by(but NOT to join)Scientology,a religion another sci fi writer invented.Im posting this just to say a little about how I think.Id appreciate any comment since this is my first post ever on a philosophical type of forum.

JEST2ASK

We have much in common and even now I feel guilty because I do not see the same God as others ... and have to keep questioning myself to be sure I am being honest with myself in regards to motivations.
Hmmmm Yes and No ..... I am beginning to feel that a lot of what is in "Holy Books" is not wisdom and it takes a great deal of effort to see that we have advanced beyond (the hidden agendas). Yet the do serve as a basis for understanding how our ancestors thought if taken in context of what other sources tell us.


I agree I think the best we can do is be willingly to honestly explore.

OK - Hello even though I have not been arround long myself ...

Interesting that you want to look into Scientology, may I ask why. Is it the actual belives or a look into the history of the movement that prompts you.?

sabalseed

I definately do NOT believe it.My interest lies in understanding reasons why people would,since there are accounts of people who said Ron Hubbard mentioned starting a religion years before Scientology.It is very obvious that Hubbard couldnt be God,or a prophet for that matter.He was a science fiction writer,and Ive always liked sci fi.Im also interested because his group has nearly taken over the city of Clearwater Fla,where my mother grew up.I remember visiting there in the early 60s and would like to know what changes Scientology has caused there.

JEST2ASK

It would be great if we had real insight into the founders of more mainstream (older) religions as well as the inner development process. Unfortunately the best we have now is scant mention from other sources merely attesting to (IMO) minor historical points. This not to say that there is no evidence of other forces which played a part in their development, I am just always left with the feeling of If Only we had more.

diana

Greetings, sabalseed. Welcome to II.

Since this is the Existence of God forum, I invite you to expand on your reasons for thinking he doesn't exist.

Yes. One of our regulars--Mad Kally--has this observation distilled to a one-liner. I will say that this is an intelligent--and obviously uncommon--observation for a child to make, though.

They never told you the real scoop on God because they couldn't. For some reason, this also strikes me as an interesting comment. I often wonder if people who are convinced that God exists don't see the lack of evidence and logic to it because they can't...or because they won't.

Hmmm.

d

parkdalian

Welcome sabalseed!

Every time I see the Santa/God connection presented to Christians, I always get the feeling that they dismiss it as an insulting (or at least sarcastic) comparison. It's a solid analogy though, when you look at the imagery, omnicience, good and evil/ naughty or nice, and an almost identical distribution miracle to that of Jesus.

I know that the Santa myth was never consciously meant to be a training template for small children to believe in God, but it has certainly evolved into that role for some. If a child figures it out independently as you did though, it can obviously backfire.

Albert Cipriani

Dear Sab,
Who can blame you for being an atheist now, since, as a child, you ‘got your ideas about God’ from what you knew about Santa Claus. That your disbelief in Santa Claus could lead you to your disbelief in God seems sad, not sensible.

Allow me to explain. Disbelief is a judgement, not evidence. If you disbelieved every word that ever came out of your parents’ mouths, those judgments alone would add up to not one scintilla of evidence that the next word they said would be false.

In formal logic terms, your disbelief cannot be used as an inference in deducing anything. You may induce from the lies of your parents that they are liars. But such an induction, as is true of any induction, does not constitute logical proof. It constitutes a generalization. And generalizations are logically useless.

But you’ve allowed a childhood generalization to dictate your present-day judgement. This is a patently false way of proceeding.

Your illogically arrived at disbelief in God is analogous to a belief in the next coin toss being “tails” because the last one was “heads.” You have connected non-existent dots. You have formed a judgment that is based upon unrelated facts, even tho as your parents, they are ‘related’ to you. – Sincerely, Albert Cipriani the Traditional Catholic
My Religious Philosophy List

sabalseed

I didnt say God doesnt exist,just that no religion could prove he does.Science is the only tool man knows to learn about reality,so God should be looked for scientifically.To a degree physics does this,but not completely.Soneone should carefully analyze some dying people to see if any evidence of part of them"passing on"could be detected.In the past this would have been impossible but as more amd more refined measurements of energy and matter become possible,perhaps it could someday be done if there is an afterlife.In another post Ill mention who(or what)besides God could possibly have made man.

Albert Cipriani

Sab says:
Science taught us for the longest time that man’s ability to talk was what “really” made us different than all the other animals. Ergo, speech is a real thing. But if, as you say, science is the only tool we have for learning real things, how did you ever learn how to talk? Certainly not through the "tool" of science.

And while you’re at it, how does Science unlearn what it learned us? Through more science? Very strange. So Science teaches us what’s real and then teaches us that it played us for fools? Some tool this Science is. Seems more like smoke and mirrors that pseudo-intellectuals like to hide behind instead of coming out into the sunshine and smelling the roses.

No kid I know has ever employed the scientific method to learn how to talk (which, by the way, is the most complicated feat any of us ever accomplish no matter how many degrees we amass). Rather infants know what Poindexters (I’m not calling anyone that name!) everywhere have forgotten, that reality is an art form deciphered by experience, intuition, and subjectivity.

Sab says:
Let me guess: aliens? No, no. That’s too easy. I know! I’ve got it: the oxymoron that man descended up from the apes when apes came down out of the trees. – Albert Who Learned Most of What He Knows by Osmosis and In Spite of Science

Jobar

Greetings sabalseed. Albert Cipriani, I'm sure you've noticed, is one of our theistic members, and does not agree that "God is Santa Claus for adults." (Mad Kally)

Many of us here have been in your position. I think that Internet Infidels is a good place to ask the sort of questions you need answered. Many- most- of the people you will meet here have decided that all religions are in the business of telling each other comforting lies.