DMB

There has been a big kerfuffle lately in the Church of England. A gay man was appointed to a junior bishopric. He has a lifetime partner, although they have been celibate for an unspecified number of years. The evangelical wing (=fairly fundie) of the church was incensed about this and there was a big fuss from the Nigerian anglican church and some in the Caribbean. Finally, he was forced to withdraw his aceptance of the post.

There was much quoting of Leviticus and St Paul against homosexuality, but no-one, even the fundies, really observes all the things in Leviticus. So how do they pick which ones matter to their god and which ones don't?

Furthermore, I have always been struck by the story of Jesus and the disciples being told off for picking ears of corn on the sabbath and his replying that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath. And yet the most hot and strong fundies appear to be the ones who are most intent on giving everyone a miserable time on Sundays.

So am I right that all xians are pretty selective about the bible, even if they believe it to be the word of their god?

Secular Pinoy

Sure they are. I mean, you cannot be thoroughly consistent with the bible since it's full of contradictions. Just browse the BC&H forum and watch Magus55 and EstherRose do word gymnastics when presented with contrary views, from the bible itself.

emur

Absolutely!!! To illustrate, a local UCC church put on a display of stories and photographs of gay and lesbian families, so that the public could see that they were really just as human as heterosexuals.

Out came the letters to the editor from the Christian fundamentalists/evangelicals. They quoted portions of Leviticus and Romans 1, where homosexuality is condemned.

So I wrote an article in which I showed that these fundies were being selective in their condemnation. In Romans 1, not only is homosexuality considered a sin, but so is gossip, being unloving, pride, and other assorted things that fundies do all of the time. It's blantant hypocrisy to treat these things as OK, but homosexuality as wrong.

Turns out that an evangelical who read my article relayed to a friend of mine that he believed I was taking homosexuality too lightly. This just proved my point. Apparently, sins like gossip and being unloving aren't in the same catagory as homosexuality, even though the writer of Romans 1 lumped them all together without making any distinctions.

Christians of a more liberal persuation pick and choose also, but they admit it.

Mel

Roland98

Of course they do. Leviticus has already been mentioned--of course, the fundie excuse is that Jesus came and the "old covenant" is no longer upheld--they have the "new covenant." SO now it's OK to eat sea animals without scales, and to mix fabrics, etc. But even those that say they interpret the bible absolutely literally (YECs and the like) are fooling themselves. Clearly, there are parts that are not meant to be taken literally--much of Jesus' teachings are in metaphor and parables. The fundies don't go out there and apply all Jesus' metaphors literally. So by saying they "take everything literally," they're still making an interpretation of the bible--and picking and choosing along the way.

Biff the unclean

To give these devils their due; the hatred and persecution of homosexuals is a time honored church tradition. Gays are even called "faggots" after the bundles of sticks used to start a fire.

This tolerance stuff of accepting people as having value simply because the are human beings is part of "Humanism." Humanism being a movement that began among the intellectuals of the Renaissance in opposition to Christian teaching.

While many (most?) Christians are also Humanists their Humanism is in spite of their Christian values and not because of them. One cannot really expect the Bishops of the CoE to abandon their traditional hatreds in favor of an evolved secular, nonchristian, morality.

Frankly I don't know why anyone here is surprised. We have never seen Christians behave with tolerance, why should we expect it now. Can a leopard change its spots or an Ethiopian it's skin, as the Xians would say?
You didn't think all that talk about god being love means anything did you? It's just an advertising slogan.

CJD

<sniff> . I didn't even make the top two?! Seriously, Secular, given that neither of those two set themselves up to be leaders, scholars or representatives of a particular field, they probably shouldn't be targeted like that. I don't even understand most of these responses—as if anyone can pick up a book and not immediately engage the interpretive process. Are any of you prepared to dictate to me how to read the bible, and then presume to fault me for it?

One name: Francesco Petrarch. Now go do your homework.

But if you were referring to secular humanism, well, then you can go clear back to Genesis 3 where it is described in detail.

Regards,

CJD

Hugo Holbling

Why wouldn't Christians interpret the Bible selectively? It makes no sense to criticise fundamentalists for being literalists and then round on them when they aren't.

Spaz

It's not so much what they do but what they say. They don't take everything literally, only an idiot would, but they expect other people to take literally what they do. The whole religion is full of sects thinking different things, and that's not the problem, the problem is when they expect others to think the same way they do.

Jamie_L

There are some pretty awful instructions in the OT. How many Western fundamentalists would stone their daughters to death if they turned out not to be virgins on their wedding day? How many kill their sons for disobedience. Sure, we've got Blue laws in the southern U.S., but none of them involve Capital Punishment, and no one is really aruging that they should.

But of course, there's this new covenant, see, so you don't have to follow the old rules.

But then again, some of the old rules must still be obeyed. Eye for an eye. No laying with another man. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

All Christians pick and choose the parts of the bible they like. That's why there are so many denominations. When it comes to morality, they're just as subjective as everyone else.

Jamie

Godless Dave

I criticize the fundamentalists for claiming to be literalists when in reality they are not, and for thinking their interpretation of scripture is the only possible interpretation.


I don't care if my wife is virgin on our wedding night, but I'd be happy to get her stoned