Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Answerer · 12-13-2002, 07:37 PM

Just curious, we often see physicists and mathematicians talk about theoretical concepts and ideas like 'infinite distance' or 'infinite time'(eternity). But so far, none of the scientists had discovered any quantities that hold 'infinite value', for example, the 'width' and age of our universe, etc. Therefore, this begs the question of whether our mathematical concept like 'infinite' and 'eternity' have any meaning or manifestation at all in our own physical world? So, what do you guys think?

Demosthenes · 12-13-2002, 09:14 PM

Well in physical equations, infinities can be used to describe certain states as the equations evolve in time. It's just a mathematical technique of describing something, it doesn't necessarily have any actual physical counterpart in reality. There are theorized quantities which may be infinite but so far they're just theory, no real evidence have been found for them.

eh · 12-14-2002, 10:10 AM

Well many scientists think the universe is open and infinite. But that would be impossible to ever prove, for obvious reasons. Other than that, there does not appear to be any infinities in nature.

homechex · 12-14-2002, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eh:
Well many scientists think the universe is open and infinite. But that would be impossible to ever prove, for obvious reasons. Other than that, there does not appear to be any infinities in nature.

I think most people intelligent believe that our universe started with the big bang. My question is, I wonder how many other big bangs preceded this one and how many other big bangs are happening elsewhere in the universe as we speak and how many more will occur in the future.

Kharakov · 12-14-2002, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by homechex:


I think most people intelligent believe that our universe started with the big bang. My question is, I wonder how many other big bangs preceded this one and how many other big bangs are happening elsewhere in the universe as we speak and how many more will occur in the future.

I've narrowed it down to approximately 42 with an infinite margin of error.

Undercurrent · 12-14-2002, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Answerer:
Just curious, we often see physicists and mathematicians talk about theoretical concepts and ideas like 'infinite distance' or 'infinite time'(eternity). But so far, none of the scientists had discovered any quantities that hold 'infinite value', for example, the 'width' and age of our universe, etc. Therefore, this begs the question of whether our mathematical concept like 'infinite' and 'eternity' have any meaning or manifestation at all in our own physical world? So, what do you guys think?

Infinites are no more theoretical than any other mathematical concept. No mathematical concept "really" exists in the physical universe. The correspondence between some physical systems and some mathematical systems must be proven experimentally and do not exist independently of the rules we use for interpreting the physical system to make the correspondence. Is it surprising then that there are mathematical concepts that don't seem to correspond to any physical concepts?

m.

homechex · 12-14-2002, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kharakov:


I've narrowed it down to approximately 42 with an infinite margin of error.

Hum Would that be plus or minus?

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: homechex ]

Answerer · 12-14-2002, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by homechex:


I think most people intelligent believe that our universe started with the big bang. My question is, I wonder how many other big bangs preceded this one and how many other big bangs are happening elsewhere in the universe as we speak and how many more will occur in the future.

Are you talking about the 'infinite big bang' theory?

Answerer · 12-14-2002, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undercurrent:


Is it surprising then that there are mathematical concepts that don't seem to correspond to any physical concepts?

m.

Nope, it isn't really surprising. I just can't accept that everything in our reality is finite so far.

wade-w · 12-14-2002, 08:49 PM

A rigorous mathematical definition of infinty wasn't developed until fairly recently. A set S is said to be infinite if and only if there exists a proper subset of S, S1 such that there is a one-to-one correspondence between S and S1. How this can correspond to anything in nature is beyond me.

Undercurrent's point about the relationship between a mathematical idea and reality is something that should always be kept in mind.

12-13-2002, 07:37 PM	#1
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Could the theoretical concepts like infinity and eternity be discovered in reality? Just curious, we often see physicists and mathematicians talk about theoretical concepts and ideas like 'infinite distance' or 'infinite time'(eternity). But so far, none of the scientists had discovered any quantities that hold 'infinite value', for example, the 'width' and age of our universe, etc. Therefore, this begs the question of whether our mathematical concept like 'infinite' and 'eternity' have any meaning or manifestation at all in our own physical world? So, what do you guys think?

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12-13-2002, 09:14 PM	#2
Demosthenes Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: a speck of dirt Posts: 2,510	Well in physical equations, infinities can be used to describe certain states as the equations evolve in time. It's just a mathematical technique of describing something, it doesn't necessarily have any actual physical counterpart in reality. There are theorized quantities which may be infinite but so far they're just theory, no real evidence have been found for them.

12-14-2002, 10:10 AM	#3
eh Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 624	Well many scientists think the universe is open and infinite. But that would be impossible to ever prove, for obvious reasons. Other than that, there does not appear to be any infinities in nature.

12-14-2002, 08:49 PM	#10
wade-w Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Silver City, New Mexico Posts: 1,872	A rigorous mathematical definition of infinty wasn't developed until fairly recently. A set S is said to be infinite if and only if there exists a proper subset of S, S1 such that there is a one-to-one correspondence between S and S1. How this can correspond to anything in nature is beyond me. Undercurrent's point about the relationship between a mathematical idea and reality is something that should always be kept in mind.

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