Terracotta

is the title of a thread from a board that I lurk on. I just had to share...

xxChristians are going to lose lots of arguements to intellectuals. This is how they are separated, the goats from the sheep. But those who have lots of human wisdom also have lots of deception. Because to come to the Holy Spirit it is required to purge the carnal wisdom and have faith in the verses. Because the intellect is of the flesh and human wisdom. But faith is of the verses and strength to endure the humiliation by the intellectuals. An intellectual has to be right at all cost, and their arguement will waver back and forth until they feel they have won. But remember God has made foolish the wisdom of man. He who is from God speaks the Words of God(verses). Man is glorified on earth, but Christians will be glorified in the resurrection.

One big problem with the rational mind(reasoning out things) is that they assume that they know the truth about everything already. So they start out in their thinking with the assumption that they can know. But what does the Word of God say: unless you become as a little child, you will by no means enter the kingdom of God. And a little child just believes everything you tell them. Well that is what the Word of God says, just believe what the Word tells you. In reality the Word is saying believe it first and then God will open your understanding. But the rational mind says dont believe nothing until you have good reason behind it. This is the difference between accepting it on faith, and reasoning it out according to mans wisdom. The Word accually says to first repent then believe in the gospel. It doesnt say reason it out until it says what you want it to. To many have a pre-conceived idea planted by some man before they open the bible. Then they search to find something that supports their already pre-conceived idea.

There are also a zillion Bible verses in the post. So this guy is saying that being intellectual and using reason as a guide is unacceptable to God. I would think that the opposite were true. That's why I cannot accept Xianity.

Douglas J. Bender

I would agree that "being intellectual and using reason as a guide" is not SUFFICIENT to lead a person to God. It is NECESSARY that one have a humble and open heart in order to come to God, something most who are "intellectual" do not have.

Besides, since when was it established that that person spoke for "true Christianity (TM)"? Actually, the Bible indicates that it is primarily through REASON and reasoning that people come to faith in Jesus - Paul "reasoned with the Jews daily" (I think I've got the quote exactly right) from the Scriptures (the Old Testament). But without an open and humble heart, all the valid reasoning in the world won't convince someone intent on disbelieving. (Internet Infidels itself is a perfect example of this.)

In Christ,

Douglas

NOGO

The fallacy in this kind of arguement should be obvious.

What should I accept on faith without questioning and as a child?

Their answer is the Bible.

But how do you know that?

If the answer is on faith then why not accept on faith the Buddhist scriptures or Hindu scriptures.

The fact is that the first step must always be a one taken on reason and reason alone. Otherwise we would all believe anything we are told, uncritically.

The Naked Mage

Like you do?

[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: The Naked Mage ]</p>

kctan

Every "intellectual" would know that having an "opened" heart would lead them directly to god, if there's one.

Oxymoron

Can you tell me what this "open heart" thing is that I must have?

Speechless

Only you can judge what you can and cannot understand. Anybody who says otherwise is trying to control the way you think, and in doing so, control you.

Bastards!

babelfish

This has to be my all-time favorite argument that Christians use - don't trust your intellect, trust the Word of God.

This is why Christians are scared to send their kids to secular colleges and universities.

Fundamental Christianity has throughout history (just ask Galileo) attempted to keep its adherents from finding out things for themselves.

Even nowadays, the motto is "It's in the Bible, and that's good enough for me."

If anything is discovered that may challenge your belief system, look away from it, shield your eyes, and close your mind.

I guess "opening your heart" is a metaphor for "think with your emotions, not with your brain."

The Naked Mage

BINGO!

Oxymoron

But... emotions are things I feel, primiive brain functions, too low-level for cognitive processing.

The way this is reflected in our language is interesting, example: "I feel you've made a fool of me" might really expand to

(1) I feel: high heart rate; light-headed; nauseous.
(2) I believe: you made a fool out of me.

Statement (1) is about one's internal body state, which we can easily observe and isn't really refutable.
Statement (2) is an interpretation of an event which may or may not be correct. It's a cognitive function. It's susceptible to rational analysis.
(1) and (2) are connected by association only - that's the mechanism of memory.

Because our language mixes and muddles "feeling" with "belief", we often see phrases such as "open your heart", which is in the end an utterly meaningless and trite instruction to arbitrarily or wrongly associate beliefs about the world and the state of your central nervous system.