Totalitarianist

It is always my belief that Atheism is not a belief. However, I am "debating" this subject with a certain person. I have destroyed his principal argument again and again, from all sides; he throws it back at me each time, ignoring the refutation each time, stating it in different words each time, all along thinking that he is winning; and everyone else seems to be agreeing with him.

More importantly, he believes (and he calls himself an Atheist), that over 99 percent of Atheists believe that Atheism is a belief. He says that philosophers and qualified people in general believe that it is a belief. His claims are completely inconsistent with anything I have read. In fact, I am constantly assured in atheological literature that Atheism is not a belief at all.

Jinto

Atheism is a belief in the same sense that bald is a hair color. Bald is not a hair color.

Starboy

DorogoyTotalitarianist,

Ask your annoying friend if he believes there is no god. If he says yes then from his point of view he is a believer that there is no god. As for myself, like a newborn baby, I lack a belief in god.

Na zdorovia

Starboy

Bumble Bee Tuna

Strong atheism is a belief, weak atheism is not.

But if we're just talking generic atheism, weak atheism is the most common and is actually the definition of atheism, so it definitely takes precedence.

Not a belief.

Strong atheism: I believe gods do not exist.
Obviously a belief.

Weak atheism: I lack belief in gods.
Obviously a lack of belief.

Analogies like "atheism is to belief as bald is to hair color" or "atheism is to belief as barefoot is to footwear" or "saying atheism is a belief is a lot like answering the question 'what kind of drink is in your glass?' with 'empty'. Is empty a kind of drink?" If the guy can't understand after all the analogies, try getting him to define atheism. If his definitions are like mine, he is hopeless, but maybe you can show him by definition. If he defines atheism as strong atheism, there's your problem, explain that your definition is different and be done. If he fails to understand even after all this, tell him he's a complete fucking moron and neads to pull his head of his tight asshole.

-B

Goliath

Is atheism a belief? Of course not! Atheism, by definition is the lack of belief in the existence of any gods.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Felstorm

I'm sure the whole "faith" thing was brought up right?

There are two kinds of "faith".

Rational and Irrational.

Example of rational faith.

You have faith that the sun will come up in the east and not the west tomorrow. Why? Because you have based your "faith" upon rational physical evidence that we live in a heliocentric solar system. Your faith can then be assumed to be "rational". As it is based upon independently confirmable objective evidence that the sun will in fact rise in the east tomorrow and not the west.

Example of Irrational Faith.

I believe in invisible goblins that live inside my telephone handset. These goblins write down everything I say really fast, then run to the other end of the phone line, and dictate perfectly to the other person in my voice what I just said, he then writes down what the other person says and then runs back in a split second and then dictates back to me what he said in his voice. You can't PROVE that there aren't invisible goblins inside my phone, so I must be right that they exist, because I say that they exist and only someone that reads my book on them can see them. Nevermind the electronics inside them. That was put there by the goblins to test your faith that the goblins do in fact exist and serves as proof that they exist.

Jayjay

I voted for yes. In my humble opinion atheism is a belief that something doesn't exist. The only exception I can think of is "ignorant atheists" like newborn babies who have never even thought of the concept of deities.

Stephen T-B

OK Jayjay: Do you "believe" fairies don't exist?

Rousseau_CHN

weird as it may seem but you maybe in the same boat.

what is needed here is a clarification of terms?

Since the proposition is "Is atheism a belief?" It is easy to clarify terms since there are only two words that needs clarifying: atheism and belief?

What is atheism? What is belief? I believe that if you two find a common understanding of these two words, you won't be debating this topic over and over again.

Some people believe that belief is the truth we hold "dear". If that's the case, then your opponent is right. Since the non-existent of a God is the truth he hold dear.

But if belief is something that should be positive, then you, Total, are right. since atheism is only a negation: there is no God.

Anyway, a clarification of terms is in order. And you might find that you're in agreement with him all along.

You? What do you mean by belief?

Jayjay

Yes, I believe fairies don't exist.

I'm thinking it this way: suppose I have a choice to decide whether to go to the store and buy some milk. What if I decide not to go? Is that a decision? Is there a real difference between not deciding to go, and deciding not to go? The same with beliefs... even a negative belief is a belief.