critical thinking made ez

Did the problem between God and Satan happen before man was created?
Did God imprison Satan on Earth before man was created?

Then why did God put his new creation (man) on the same planet (prison) with Satan?

Would you put someone you loved, next door with such evil? Not if you loved them. What’s your god’s reason for such stupidity or evil action?

Kenny

Hey, CTMEZ, when did you stop beating your wife?

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Kenny ]</p>

Orpheous99

The question should be "Do you still beat your wife with a yard stick, yes or no?" He didn't ask a yes or no question so your reply is irrelevant.

Kenny

A loaded question is a loaded question &lt;shrugs&gt;

critical thinking made ez

Kenny is the first Theist to avoid the issue altogether here. Anyone else that may be able to show Kenny how to argue the real points being made here?

kctan

Kenny is a wife beater, that's why he's interested in knowing if there are others out there beating theirs.

The most propable answer would be "god works in mysterious ways" or "its for the greater good", don't bother asking for further clarification as xians have none.

Kenny

You’re right, I’m avoiding the issue. I have no desire to enter into another complex discussion at the moment. My main reason for posting was to point out that wording questions like: “What’s your god’s reason for such stupidity or evil action?” is not necessarily all that conducive for starting a discussion with a Christian theist. Most of us (for some strange reason) like to have conversations with people who are at least willing to listen and try to understand our viewpoint (even if they have no intention of adopting it) rather than with people who ask us questions that already assume their own conclusions about what they are asking about. In general, philosophical dialogs are most effective when they are done in a spirit of charity, even if you initially happen to think that your opponent’s position is absurd. I have learned in through my own experience that sometimes the reason I thought a position was dumb was because I did not fully understand it or the rational behind it and then when I asked questions or tried to learn about it, I discovered that it was not nearly so dumb as I thought, and in a few rare cases, even found myself adopting it – at any rate, I always found that I had learned something. Perhaps you might profit if you take this into consideration. Fruitful discussions to you in the future.

God Bless,
Kenny

Kenny

Actually, I thought it was a known fact that all atheists beat their wives (kidding, of course). I’m single and have never been married, but when I stop beating my wife, I’ll let you know.

God Bless,
Kenny

Kvalhion

The questions posed were not part of such a theme at all. In fact, the first two questions you can take right of the bible and answer yes or no.

The third question, while it admittedly doesn't say much for an omnibenevolent being, is a valid question. Crying foul and avoiding the question altogether doesn't make the point being made disappear. Of course, you don't have to answer. But dodging the issue really solves nothing.

Albert Cipriani

Dear EZ,
Your question is too like your name. So I'll tell you a joke it reminds me of.

Three people were arguing God. The electrical engineer said God had to be an electrical engineer in order to design the complex neural network of our brains. The mechanical engineer said God had to be a mechanical engineer because of our opposable thumbs. The janitor got it right. He said God must be a government bureaucrat because only a government bureaucrat would think to put a recreation area next to a toxic waste dump.

Alright, why did God put man in the same place as Satan? This begs the question of why did God put Satan in a place where Satan could be tempted to fall?

Evil has to come from someplace. And the only possible place evil can come from in a perfect creation is out of creation itself, a kind of spontaneous generation bred by those twin imposters, pain and pleasure.

The metaphysical answer to your question is maximum extension. The Big Bang is showing us the way the truth and the light. Temporal and spatial extension is the prime directive of Creation. The dilemma life alone faces between extension or retraction is the essence of morality and the explanation of how evil enters Creation.

When we do what is in our own best interests here and now we violate our prime directive. When we do what is in our own or other's long range best interests we fulfill our prime directive. For example, homosexuality, incest, and polygamy are expressions of retraction, an unwillingness to extend beyond our sexual gender, out of our nuclear family, or allow others to extend themselves into the gene pool.

Likewise, the sin of Adam was a sin of retraction. He betrayed his infinite extension through his friendship with the infinite God for his finite self via the short-term immediate retraction of consuming forbidden fruit. The taking of what was not his into his body perfectly illustrates the metaphysics of all immorality.

Contrast Adam's fall beside the living tree of knowledge with Christ's saving act of being "lifted up" on the dead tree of the cross whereby His extension of Himself in the form of sacrificially spilling His blood from His body contradicted Adam's selfish retraction of food into his body. Sincerely, Albert the Traditional Catholic