Freethought & Rationalism Archive

winstonjen · 06-28-2003, 11:43 PM

I honestly cannot see how nonadulterous rape is not a crime in the bible. It says not to steal, but how is rape anything but stealing the use of someone's body? How could they rationalise this away - except through the usual 'god said so, that's that'?

And some people claimed that those morals were high standards when compared to other cultures at the time. What's that called - the ad populum fallacy? :boohoo:

EstherRose · 06-29-2003, 03:10 AM

Without looking up the scriptures at this point, I believe you are refering to when a single woman is raped and then given in marriage to her attacker. he is never allowed to leave her, as defined in the old testament laws.

I believe this system was in place to protect the woman and any offsrping she might have as a result. It is harsh to our modern morality, but in the old testament times, a single woman who was not a virgin was not desirable to anyone, especially if she had an out of wedlock child. Forcing the assailant to marry her and provide for her protected her name, her child, and her future.

winstonjen · 06-29-2003, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EstherRose
Without looking up the scriptures at this point, I believe you are refering to when a single woman is raped and then given in marriage to her attacker. he is never allowed to leave her, as defined in the old testament laws.

And she is not allowed to leave him, hence giving him a license to rape. And, as has been mentioned in similar threads, if the man WANTS to marry the single woman, it's not a punishment at all. And if she doesn't get pregnant, well, no need to support anyone else.

Quote:

I believe this system was in place to protect the woman and any offsrping she might have as a result. It is harsh to our modern morality, but in the old testament times, a single woman who was not a virgin was not desirable to anyone, especially if she had an out of wedlock child. Forcing the assailant to marry her and provide for her protected her name, her child, and her future.

Ah, the 'damaged goods' argument. Wouldn't it have been better to encourage sympathy for the rape victim instead of shunning them?

Kilgore Trout · 07-02-2003, 02:19 PM

This is why christians ignore most of the Jewish laws. They want to try to forget that Jesus' daddy had lousy morals.

Quote:

It is harsh to our modern morality, but in the old testament times, a single woman who was not a virgin was not desirable to anyone, especially if she had an out of wedlock child

The whole idea is that if you admit that it is harsh in "modern morality" then you are admitting that our modern morals are better than god's morals used to be. It makes no sense to believe this "perfect" god could not tell the Hebrews how to act in ways we now know is moral. Either you are supposed to say that we are supposed to still treat rape victims this way, or you are saying that god was immoral.

It makes no sense to "punish" a rapist by forcing the woman who was raped to have to marry her attacker. A man was executed for picking up wood on the sabbath, but if you rape a woman you get to marry her! That's some justice.

Another classic one from the Torah is that when the Hebrews took over a foreign city they were allowed to take any woman they wanted in that city and force them to be their wife. That's another great example of licensed rape.

winstonjen · 07-02-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kilgore Trout
Another classic one from the Torah is that when the Hebrews took over a foreign city they were allowed to take any woman they wanted in that city and force them to be their wife. That's another great example of licensed rape.

Oh, but all societies did it back then! Why single out the Jews?[/fundy mode]

Heh. It's interesting how believers twist their own doctrine to suit their own needs. Licensed rape is further proof that the bible was written BY MEN, FOR MEN.

Mageth · 07-02-2003, 02:32 PM

For the record:

Deu 22:28,29 (KJV) - If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Note that if the "damsel" was betrothed, the man is to be killed and the "damsel" not punished.

It sounds like that, if you were a man that was having trouble finding a girl to marry, the preferred course would be to rape an unbetrothed girl. (note that, since betrothal commonly occurred at a very young age then, these "damsels" were probably what we'd today consider children).

mark9950 · 07-03-2003, 12:30 PM

This god is all fiction,these MEN wanted to rape and get away with it and be justified for doing it, so they invented this god that allows men to rape as long as other conditions are met.

Sounds like a license to rape.Just do not do it now a days or you will have to face bubba behind bars.

morality?

winstonjen · 07-03-2003, 01:15 PM

Right. And they still haven't explained why rape isn't theft of someone's body in addition to assault.

wordsmyth · 07-03-2003, 02:33 PM

Isn't there also a law about if a man marries a woman and she is not a virgin, then she should be stoned to death. Seems to me if a man rapes a woman he could then use this little loop hole to get out of the marriage by having her stoned to death.

06-28-2003, 11:43 PM	#1
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	Discrepancy Between Biblical Laws I honestly cannot see how nonadulterous rape is not a crime in the bible. It says not to steal, but how is rape anything but stealing the use of someone's body? How could they rationalise this away - except through the usual 'god said so, that's that'? And some people claimed that those morals were high standards when compared to other cultures at the time. What's that called - the ad populum fallacy? :boohoo:

07-03-2003, 12:30 PM	#7
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	This proves This god is all fiction,these MEN wanted to rape and get away with it and be justified for doing it, so they invented this god that allows men to rape as long as other conditions are met. Sounds like a license to rape.Just do not do it now a days or you will have to face bubba behind bars. morality?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-29-2003, 03:10 AM	#2
EstherRose Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 183	Without looking up the scriptures at this point, I believe you are refering to when a single woman is raped and then given in marriage to her attacker. he is never allowed to leave her, as defined in the old testament laws. I believe this system was in place to protect the woman and any offsrping she might have as a result. It is harsh to our modern morality, but in the old testament times, a single woman who was not a virgin was not desirable to anyone, especially if she had an out of wedlock child. Forcing the assailant to marry her and provide for her protected her name, her child, and her future.

07-02-2003, 02:32 PM	#6
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	For the record: Deu 22:28,29 (KJV) - If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Note that if the "damsel" was betrothed, the man is to be killed and the "damsel" not punished. It sounds like that, if you were a man that was having trouble finding a girl to marry, the preferred course would be to rape an unbetrothed girl. (note that, since betrothal commonly occurred at a very young age then, these "damsels" were probably what we'd today consider children).

07-03-2003, 01:15 PM	#8
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	Right. And they still haven't explained why rape isn't theft of someone's body in addition to assault.

07-03-2003, 02:33 PM	#9
wordsmyth Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Des Moines, Ia. U.S.A. Posts: 521	Isn't there also a law about if a man marries a woman and she is not a virgin, then she should be stoned to death. Seems to me if a man rapes a woman he could then use this little loop hole to get out of the marriage by having her stoned to death.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.