Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bugs · 12-02-2002, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D.H. Cross:
The astral DVD was a joke guys. But there are theories out there that amount to the same thing, and I think its kinda funny.

I didn�t think you meant it literally.

What can be observed about the universe that cannot be explained without introducing the idea that when somebody dies, their consciousness flows outward to some other-dimensional vessel?

crocodile deathroll · 12-02-2002, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bugs:
I didn’t think you meant it literally.

What can be observed about the universe that cannot be explained without introducing the idea that when somebody dies, their consciousness flows outward to some other-dimensional vessel?

I least I know to the best of my knowledge that no one has ever found a soul in an autopsy

crocodile deathroll · 12-02-2002, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DMB:

Depends what you mean by the improbability of natality. The probability that an act of sexual intercourse between a man and a woman will result in a successful pregnancy is reasonably high, hence the almost unbelievably rapid growth in the human population during the last century.

If you mean the probability of the particular combination of egg and sperm that resulted in one highlighted individual, then it is much lower, although not impossible, since it happened.

As to the significance of the highlighted individual rather than his/her hypothetical siblings that might instead have resulted from the act of intercourse, that's another matter again.

I just don't see how any of the foregoing affects the probability of ensoulment, an event that has never been demonstrated to occur in the first place, unlike natality.

Yes this is the one I meant, the one in bold italics and you also should not only consider the sperm meets egg scenario but the chances of one highlighted individual as one of trillions of possible genetic variants as there would of been trillions of these potential variants between say John Paul II and Queen Elizabeth II if they got into bed with each other 60 years ago. So what is the fate of those potential individuals that never happened?

D.H. Cross · 12-02-2002, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bugs:
I didn�t think you meant it literally.

What can be observed about the universe that cannot be explained without introducing the idea that when somebody dies, their consciousness flows outward to some other-dimensional vessel?

I have never seen a ghost and I don't really believe in an afterlife, so my answer is "nothing". Nothing that I have read or seen would give me hope in an afterlife.

Enough study on Hallucination has been done to prove that it is all of the brain, and NDEs are not "death" experiences and so prove nothing.

crocodile deathroll · 12-02-2002, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D.H. Cross:


I have never seen a ghost and I don't really believe in an afterlife, so my answer is "nothing". Nothing that I have read or seen would give me hope in an afterlife.

Enough study on Hallucination has been done to prove that it is all of the brain, and NDEs are not "death" experiences and so prove nothing.

Yes I think that comparing NDEs to death is like comparing a bunge jump to a suicide leap off a cliff.

tronvillain · 12-02-2002, 06:47 PM

crocodile deathtroll:

Quote:

No different to The Improbability of Natality, because what are your chances of ever been born in the first place?

If the universe is strictly determined, then the probability of me being born was always one. If the universe is not strictly determined, the probability of me being born was also always one though estimates of its probability are lower the further back in time you go. There is nothing especially impressive about the probability of me being born.

Quote:

Yes this is the one I meant, the one in bold italics and you also should not only consider the sperm meets egg scenario but the chances of one highlighted individual as one of trillions of possible genetic variants as there would of been trillions of these potential variants between say John Paul II and Queen Elizabeth II if they got into bed with each other 60 years ago. So what is the fate of those potential individuals that never happened?

They have only potential fates. Since they never existed, those fates were never realized.

emotional · 12-03-2002, 07:30 AM

The theory of the soul is not for explaining anything, it is for consoling. In this respect it is just like creationism.

Marduk · 12-03-2002, 08:32 AM

“The theory of the soul is not for explaining anything, “

I’ve always looked at it as an attempt to explain individual subjective consciousness, the feeling of “I am” the transition of going from nothingness to being and back again.

What puzzeled me from when I was a kid was
My mom & dad went with having only one child. Before I was born mom gave birth to a stillborn female.
I always wondered if she had lived would I be a woman and a year older? Or would I not exist, or would I have different parents or would I never exist or not exist for another thousand years or so?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

crocodile deathroll · 12-03-2002, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
crocodile deathtroll:

They have only potential fates. Since they never existed, those fates were never realized.

Then again if you wound the clock back one hundred years then you were also only one of those potential fates that were never realized.

MortalWombat · 12-03-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll:
I least I know to the best of my knowledge that no one has ever found a soul in an autopsy

Don't you see? That in itself is proof of the existence of the soul. Autopsies are only performed on dead people, and since the soul leaves the body upon death, the fact that no soul has been found in an autopsy confirms that it has left the body!

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12-03-2002, 07:30 AM	#27
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	The theory of the soul is not for explaining anything, it is for consoling. In this respect it is just like creationism.

12-03-2002, 08:32 AM	#28
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	“The theory of the soul is not for explaining anything, “ I’ve always looked at it as an attempt to explain individual subjective consciousness, the feeling of “I am” the transition of going from nothingness to being and back again. What puzzeled me from when I was a kid was My mom & dad went with having only one child. Before I was born mom gave birth to a stillborn female. I always wondered if she had lived would I be a woman and a year older? Or would I not exist, or would I have different parents or would I never exist or not exist for another thousand years or so? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

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