Freethought & Rationalism Archive

D.H. Cross · 11-30-2002, 07:20 AM

There is no afterlife for the individual personality.

My basic argument against the notion is simply this:

Most people equate personality with "soul". Personality can be irrevocably changed by brain damage. Thus personality is dependent on the brain. Conclusion: when brain dies, personality goes and the continuance of the body itself has little bearing on that fact.

Alternative: There is a "cosmic" DVD backup somewhere in the "etheric body", or perhaps in the astral plane that collects all those tasty morsels of personality which is borne of memory/experience. When somebody dies, regardless of the state of their brain, their consciousness flows outward to fill this new other-dimensional vessel that serves as the backup module.
Hmmm. Sounds good to me!

Bugs · 11-30-2002, 01:30 PM

What can be observed about the universe that cannot be explained without a ��cosmic� DVD backup somewhere in the "etheric body"?

Daniel_AnglumTM · 11-30-2002, 01:55 PM

I really dont see any need for this (As are most theories bringing the occult into the real world) if you believe in afterlife this may be proof but the need for it is zero.

D.H. Cross · 11-30-2002, 02:38 PM

The astral DVD was a joke guys. But there are theories out there that amount to the same thing, and I think its kinda funny.

Oxymoron · 11-30-2002, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D.H. Cross:
The astral DVD was a joke guys. But there are theories out there that amount to the same thing, and I think its kinda funny.

Yeah, everyone knows that DVDs only hold 4GB of data, not nearly enough space for a soul-dump

Of course, with the next-generation storage medium...

Zadok001 · 11-30-2002, 04:04 PM

Actually, there's another possibility that helps work against this argument. The soul contains the personality, the brain transmits it. Thus, the soul is the permanent 'home' of our personas, and the brain takes that information and from it postulates our actions.

Not that I believe such rubbish, but it's a pretty clean way out of the argument - Brain damage still causes problems, and no need for a restorative backup. Brain damage is like television static, in essence - It distorts the picture, can make it look like something else entirely, but the picture is still there.

emotional · 12-01-2002, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zadok001:

Brain damage is like television static, in essence - It distorts the picture, can make it look like something else entirely, but the picture is still there.

The total changes in personality that brain damage can do is rather comparable to TV static turning a situation comedy into a sci-fi movie.

Also, there's the problem of soul logistics. Check out my article <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/immortality.htm"" target="_blank">The Improbability of Immortality</a>.

ps418 · 12-01-2002, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zadok001:
Actually, there's another possibility that helps work against this argument. The soul contains the personality, the brain transmits it. Thus, the soul is the permanent 'home' of our personas, and the brain takes that information and from it postulates our actions.

That's not a way out of the argument, its actually a rejection of the evidence. Brain damage is not always analogous to introducing static. Sometimes its more like replacing one signal with another signal entirely (as Devnet pointed out). For instance, how does the brain-transmitter theory explain the dramatic behavior changes seen in frontal lobe injury? See the thread <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=57&t=000701" target="_blank">Brain- instrument of the soul!</a>

Behavior genetics argues against the soul-as-the-basis-of-personality as well, in a completely different way, by showing that many personality traits in humans are substantially heritable, just as they are in other primates. Its not just personality disorders that are heritable. The covariance between genes and personality is strange, if you assume that an immaterial soul is the basis of the personality. See for instance:

<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8345444&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b" target="_blank">Bergeman CS, Chipuer HM, Plomin R, Pedersen NL, McClearn GE, Nesselroade JR, Costa PT Jr, McCrae RR. (1993). Genetic and environmental effects on openness to experience, agreeableness, and conscientiousness: an adoption/twin study. Journal of Personality. 61(2):159-79</a>

Bouchard, T. J. Jr. & McGue, M. (1990). Genetic and rearing environmental influences on adult personality: An analysis of adopted twins reared apart. Journal of Personality, 58, 263-292.

Loehlin, J. C. & Nichols, R. C. (1976). Heredity, environment, and personality: A study of 850 sets of twins. Austin: University of Texas Press

Tellegen, A., Lykken, D. T., Bouchard, T. J. Jr., Wilcox, K. J., Segal, N. L. & Rich, S. (1988). Personality similarity in twins reared apart and together. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 54, 1031-1039.

Marduk · 12-01-2002, 02:43 PM

"Yeah, everyone knows that DVDs only hold 4GB of data, not nearly enough space for a soul-dump "

Not according to the Rosicrucians, I read their web site once, they claim, and I have no idea how they know this, that when you die your whole life experience and memory are downloaded onto a single atom!

crocodile deathroll · 12-01-2002, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by devnet:


The total changes in personality that brain damage can do is rather comparable to TV static turning a situation comedy into a sci-fi movie.

Also, there's the problem of soul logistics. Check out my article <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/immortality.htm"" target="_blank">The Improbability of Immortality</a>.

No different to The Improbability of Natality, because what are your chances of ever been born in the first place?

[ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]

11-30-2002, 07:20 AM	#1
D.H. Cross Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: PA Posts: 97	Life after Death There is no afterlife for the individual personality. My basic argument against the notion is simply this: Most people equate personality with "soul". Personality can be irrevocably changed by brain damage. Thus personality is dependent on the brain. Conclusion: when brain dies, personality goes and the continuance of the body itself has little bearing on that fact. Alternative: There is a "cosmic" DVD backup somewhere in the "etheric body", or perhaps in the astral plane that collects all those tasty morsels of personality which is borne of memory/experience. When somebody dies, regardless of the state of their brain, their consciousness flows outward to fill this new other-dimensional vessel that serves as the backup module. Hmmm. Sounds good to me!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-30-2002, 01:30 PM	#2
Bugs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 45	What can be observed about the universe that cannot be explained without a ��cosmic� DVD backup somewhere in the "etheric body"?

11-30-2002, 01:55 PM	#3
Daniel_AnglumTM Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somewhere in the Suburban Jungle of London Posts: 34	I really dont see any need for this (As are most theories bringing the occult into the real world) if you believe in afterlife this may be proof but the need for it is zero.

11-30-2002, 02:38 PM	#4
D.H. Cross Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: PA Posts: 97	The astral DVD was a joke guys. But there are theories out there that amount to the same thing, and I think its kinda funny.

11-30-2002, 04:04 PM	#6
Zadok001 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Two Steps Ahead Posts: 1,124	Actually, there's another possibility that helps work against this argument. The soul contains the personality, the brain transmits it. Thus, the soul is the permanent 'home' of our personas, and the brain takes that information and from it postulates our actions. Not that I believe such rubbish, but it's a pretty clean way out of the argument - Brain damage still causes problems, and no need for a restorative backup. Brain damage is like television static, in essence - It distorts the picture, can make it look like something else entirely, but the picture is still there.

12-01-2002, 02:43 PM	#9
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"Yeah, everyone knows that DVDs only hold 4GB of data, not nearly enough space for a soul-dump " Not according to the Rosicrucians, I read their web site once, they claim, and I have no idea how they know this, that when you die your whole life experience and memory are downloaded onto a single atom!

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.