Gnomelord

Why do people bicker over so simple a subject, are there not things on a grander scale that could be used to prove/disprove the existance of a god or a religious standpoint?

Or, as it would be, on a very very small scale?

Why has the fight over evolution versus creationism, something with limited supporting evidence for both sides, become such an issue if it can not be objectively proved or disproved without more data?

sakrilege

Talk.Origins Achive

pz

You've bought into the creationist lie.

There is an immense amount of data in support of evolution; it is so comprehensive that it is foolish to deny it. There is no evidence for creationism, which was steadily demolished by it's own supporters in the 19th century. Evolution is as 'proven' as anything can be in science.

It has become such an issue because the adherents of creationism are so dedicated to their invalid beliefs about the material world (which they have nailed to their beliefs about a spiritual world, which science can say nothing about) that they have embarked on a long campaign of propaganda, lies, and disinformation. They use political means to undermine the teaching of science.

There is no scientific argument with religion, even if many of us think religion is a pretty silly, useless thing. However, scientists are strongly opposed to ignorance, and creationists are the very definition of ignorance. That's the cause. Are you on the side of knowledge, or the side of ignorance masquerading as spirituality?

Duvenoy

Hi Gnomelord.

The evidence for the ToE is virtually overwhelming. I'll not go into putting up a lot of links (i've got a scad of 'em). I will merely refere you to the link that sakrilege posted. It's excellent! probably the best, general, evolutionary site on the web.

Welcome to II!

doov

mecca777

Check the link that sakrilege posted; there is no need for more data to "objectively" prove or disprove evolution. Every day the mountain of supporting evidence grows higher and higher.

In fact, this debate only exists in the US - in every other Western country, evolution is an accepted fact by all but a tiny minority of the population, and only privately-funded religious schools would even consider devoting any time at all to creationism.

nogods4me

There is only one side in the Evo/Cre debate that has any evidence whatsoever. All, I repeat, ALL, of the evidence supports evolution. There is nothing by any stretch of the imagination "limited" about the evidence for evolution. All the evidence in biology, chemistry, physics, geology, etc. ALL OF IT supports evolution. NONE of it supports the assertion of creation.

Arikay

As Everyone else has mentioned there is no evidence for creationism, but there is tons for evolution, so ill answer the other question.

Evolution is not about proving or disproving god. Its science and god doesnt come to play in it. Unfortunatly there are creationist groups that try to trick good christians into thinking Evolution is some sort of Evil Atheist conspiracy or that its immoral or something. Quite often, these groups dont even explain evolution correctly.

Why do I "bicker"?
Basically for three reasons.
One, because our schools (especially in america) arent giving our students good educations. Sticking creationism into the school will further hurt the education of our students. Teaching the students lies and information that they later will have to unlearn if they want to continue on into certain branches of science, is not the way to further the students education for the future.

Two, I do not like missinformation, and bad knowledge being spread around. Especially when it seems to line the pockets of the preachers.

Three, Because even though im not christian, I do like the base of christianity. Creationists groups are giving this good religion a bad name. By promoting intolerance, and lieing to good people to support their beliefs. This is not what christianity is about and I believe it hurts the religion.
Lieing is not christian.

MattofVA

someone asked why Christians insist on creationism? It's because it's the logical basis of the whole scheme. No adam and eve means no original sin. No original sin means no supposed sacrificial death of Jesus. Evolution strikes at the very root of the christian metanarrative.

Gnomelord

I'm not saying that evolution does not have evidence, I'm simply stating that creating an argument for a natural phenomena would be a daunting if even possible task, hence the problem.

If you don't have a bit of a hand up you can't state an example, such an explanation would be progressively influential, and not sufficiently immediate for open debate.

EDIT: one more point.
You people are absolutely cutthroat, practically even before I opened my mouth. Kudos, but I think I'm going to stay off of this section of the boards. A bit too sharktankish for me.

Arikay

Im not sure what you mean about "creating an argument for a natural phenomena"

I think Its mainly cut throat here because this seems to be more of a resting ground for evolutionists, so any argument for creation gets nailed quickly here.