iccarus

Thank you this is great I really needed a good laugh, reminds me of the United Anarchists. If you showed up to a meeting you were thrown out. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
Think you could get tax free status?

Iccarus

Pyrrho

I think it is good to think of this in connection things like Pascal's Wager, as it can help to show the silliness of his reasoning.

copernicus

Actually, Pyrrho, I had Pascal's Wager in mind when I experienced this "revelation" about God's true nature. One risks nothing by choosing atheism, but theism can imperil one's immortal soul. So why would anyone risk faith in a religious dogma when the universe was obviously so constructed as to make that dogma appear groundless?

If God really existed, then the message that he would be trying to get across would be clear. The problem with theists is that they consider their gods powerful and otherwise magnificently endowed, but they make those gods out to be poor communicators. This is absurd. On the other hand, if God actually wanted to test people for rational thinking, what could be a better test than to situate them in a universe where everything seemed to have a natural explanation? The rational minds would end up completely skeptical about God's existence. And then, after death, what a wonderful surprise it would be for them to wake up in heaven! Rational thinking provides us with huge advantages during our lives. It would seem to follow that it should be given the highest reward in the afterlife. Belief in nonsense and patent absurdities should conversely be given the heaviest punishment.

Rationalitarianism has a clear message: If God exists, you dare not risk believing in him. If God does not exist, then what the heck anyway.

long winded fool

This is actually not so dissimilar to the teachings of Jesus, if one examines the supernatural references from an allegorical point-of-view, which Jesus himself seems to have done. If the contemporary idea of "God" is symbolized by the Pharisees, (those religious fundies who represented the accepted religion of Jesus' day who ignored reason, felt they accurately understood the scriptures and knew the true nature of God and embraced fear and church tradition,) then the contemporary "god" that most christians believe in today (an all-knowing, all-powerful man who lives in a place called heaven and who gets mad when we mortal humans sin) is just as skewed as the Pharisee's idea of God.

God is quoted saying "Come, let us reason." Jesus' teaching is very reasonable for the most part if you assume that parables need not be literally descriptive of reality to accurately represent an aspect of reality in a figurative sense. He admonishes his disciples to think critically about the allegorical parables of the scriptures and about his own. He essentially tells them to figure out how reality works by using their brains to decipher the exact nature of things. When they are confused, he rebukes them and tells them to think. To not fear their ignorance and to have faith that they can understand. Those who find literal problems ought to trust their rational analysis so long as it remains rational, but ought to still consider the figurative meanings of poetic inspiration. Throughout the Bible, though he's portrayed as a physical being, "God" is pretty much outright stated to be a symbol of Love in its purest sense. Perhaps God exists without question in the same sense that human love exists. If reason and rational thought ultimately lead people to love others as they love themselves, then God is pretty much just reason and rational thought. If God is just reason and rational thought, then many non-theists do worship "Him," and many theists don't. Rational thought has allowed us to move mountains, just like Jesus said we would. Jesus called himself Truth. Is rational thought any different than simply having faith in Truth? Not assuming that you know a given thing, but assuming that you can know it? Believing that it still exists even if you feel you aren't currently in possession of it?

JEST2ASK

Thanks for the clarification .....

However if I had not asked .... would I have been Guilty of accepting authority on "Faith"

JEST2ASK

There are many sayings attributed to J/C how can we determine what is poetry and what is not especially the whole resurection bit.

I agree though that ....
"Perhaps god exists in the same sense that human love exists" which raises some questions about his son ....

copernicus

Actually, LWF, Rationalitarianism has a slightly different take on matters. It is not a question of whether "rational thought" can be somehow interpreted (metaphorically or literally) as "God". There is no sense in which people get rewarded for worshipping anything. It is just that we find ourselves situated in a universe where natural explanations of reality produce better results than supernatural ones.

For example, belief that prayer to a supernatural being can bring rain might make one less likely to irrigate crops by artificial means or build reservoirs. So one fails to produce as much food (since experience tells us that nothing fails quite so much as prayer), and one is less likely to survive and prosper. On the other hand, reliance on natural explanations (science) leads to sensible water conservation and irrigation of crops. Rational thinking leads to concrete rewards. This is the basic lesson that we are supposed to learn from life.

Now, Rationalitarianism says that this is all God's design. He constructed the universe in such a way that any belief in supernaturalism--which is, after all, what the Bible tends to promote--ultimately gets punished. It is all a test to weed out the rational thinkers from the rest. Those who fail the test--where belief in God is pretty clearly an instance of failure to think rationally--catch hell for it. Those who come to the very rational conclusion that God does not exist go to heaven.

So your speculation that Rationalitarianism is akin to what the Bible teaches is blasphemy. Believe it at the risk of your immortal soul. My counsel is that your only hope is to abandon all faith in God, even tiny little crumbs of metaphorically supported faith. Reject God or risk eternal damnation!

Jamie_L

Without authoritarian morality, moral action flows from rationality. The immoral human is being irrational, and thus is less deserving of heaven. It all works out in the end.

Jamie

NonHomogenized

Great OP, Copernicus!
I loved that you made an assertion, basing it on an argument from personal revelation (and, hence, argument from authority), and then, for the rest of it, acted as though your premise was a given. Excellent misdirection from issues such as evidence.
I love seeing christian "logic" get turned around on them, especially in such a way as this.
I suppose, however, it's kind of sad that, back when I was a christian, I had beliefs similar to this for quite some time (ie, that god was more interested in intelligent, ethical people than he was in people who worshipped and begged him). Ah well, I was young, and I know better now.
Anyhoo, great for a laugh... and remember, cry "evidence!" and let slip the dogs of reason

CALDONIA

Omigod!!! "It's OK to convert to atheism on your deathbed..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy