Freethought & Rationalism Archive

debater10 · 02-02-2003, 09:43 AM

I never intended to be an activist for my non-belief. I applied to and am now attending Liberty University (a.k.a. Liberty Baptist College, a.k.a. Jerry Falwell University... you get the idea). It was a financial reasons that drove me to accept the university's offer, but I quickly came to realize that it may not have been worth it. After about two months, EVERYONE knew that I was an athiest. I had assumed that there may be others, but I was wrong. To the best of my knowledge, I am the Athiest at Liberty. I was considering leaving even befroe the first semester, and though I may not be here next year, I have decided to use my time here to both learn and teach.
Everyone here is willing to get into a theological discussion. A select few are able to give intelligent arguments, but for most of the people here, they have come to their beliefs because it was what their parents believed.
I am learning the arguments adn spending my free time researching and finding answers and responses.
But my position is not an entirely passive one. I do what I can to spread th truth on campus... this is somewhat difficult because of the regulations in force, but I make do how I can. Some that I have talked to are coming to see the truth, and others adamantly refuse to open their eyes.
Perhaps most importantly, though, the message of the truth of atheism is being spread on this indoctrinated campus... teachers take cheap shots at my theology in class, but I am ready to respond. When I leave this place, I hope only that I have offered the truth in a way that most of the students have never heard... in a way that actually challenges all that they are being told is right.
It gets tiring, though, which is why I have taken to the internet... to know that there are people who agree with me.

pz · 02-02-2003, 09:50 AM

Yeesh. Why are you wasting your time at a university with such an awful, worthless reputation? A degree from Liberty is not going to be particularly helpful in getting a secular job after you graduate, and personally, I am extremely dubious about the quality of the education you can get at a place propped up by a philosophical worldview that is so opposed to learning.

Take the credits you've earned so far and transfer elsewhere, anywhere else, as quick as you can!

debater10 · 02-02-2003, 10:12 AM

That's my hope. I have to finish out the year here... one of the scholarships I'm getting demanded that I do so. Hopefully, I will be transferring into James Madison University or the University of Delaware. But in all reality, I could transfer into a low-rate community college and get more of an education.
Just to give you an idea of the kind of thing that goes on here, in one of my classes, "Juvenile Justice," the teacher REFUSED to teach anything that dealt with mental disorders and their impact on juvenile prosecutions. Her justification? There is no biblical basis for them, therefore, things like ADD, Bipolar disorders, Turrets, they don't even exist. She says that they are things that the secular world made up to avoid responsibility for its sinfull way.
What gets me is that she wouldn't even TALK about the issue. I would not be so angry if she presented the issue, and then talked about why she disagreed with it. But how does she think she is preparing her students for the REAL WORLD if she just ignores whatever she has personal issues with?

www.geocities.com/liberty_truth/

Some of the articles on this site should be interesting...

Psycho Economist · 02-02-2003, 10:41 AM

I hope, for your sake, that site is not published by you. While everything on it may be true (can the author document that L.U. is really run by demons?), big religious groups tend to get very upset when negative things are said about them. Interested citizens who've tried to expose groups like Scientology (the textbook example) have been the objects of incessant lawsuits... if they can't get defamation charges to stick, they'll move onto copyright violation, and whatever else they can imagine to bring before a court.

My totally non-lawerly advice to whoever is the author/publisher: retain an attorney or keep under their radar... preferably both.

Grad Student Humanist · 02-02-2003, 11:18 AM

While I sympathize with your current plight, what the hell did you expect would happen when you enrolled in a school whose main goal isn't education, rather indoctrination?

Get the hell out of there as fast as you can. You could get a better education at just about any state school and it would be more valuable in the secular job market too.

debater10 · 02-02-2003, 11:22 AM

They don't tell the truth to the people who think about coming to the university...
For example, the information they sent me talked about Convocation that was held three times per week. It described it as a "forum for the discussion of important issues of the day."
In reality, it is mandatory church three times per week.
They also do not send the prospective strudents copies of the "Liberty Way" (the rules that we have to follow here).
I could not request a copy of them until I had already decided that that is where I wanted to go.

To be honest, with both of my parents working at the church, I though that I would be able to survive in this type of atmosphere... it seems that that is not the case.

Toto · 02-02-2003, 11:24 AM

What can I say? I hope you are keeping notes for the expose you are going to write after you leave.

I recently read this book:

The Book of Jerry Falwell: Fundamentalist Language and Politics by Susan Friend Harding

(I started a thread on it here , but got involved in other issues.)

The book gave some new perspectives on Falwell for me, but I couldn't tell if the author was too sympathetic, or just too post-modern. If you get a chance to read it, I would be interested in your comments.

In any case, best of luck to you.

Toto · 02-02-2003, 12:13 PM

One reason there may be such a disconnect between the published propaganda for Libery U and the actual course content and requirements, is that Falwell tried to put a modern secular face on his university for various purposes of accreditation, so his graduates could get into other universities and professional schools. The book I referenced goes into this.

Keep notes for that expose.

Just Another Infidel · 02-02-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by debater10
They don't tell the truth to the people who think about coming to the university...
For example, the information they sent me talked about Convocation that was held three times per week. It described it as a "forum for the discussion of important issues of the day."
In reality, it is mandatory church three times per week.
They also do not send the prospective strudents copies of the "Liberty Way" (the rules that we have to follow here).
I could not request a copy of them until I had already decided that that is where I wanted to go.

To be honest, with both of my parents working at the church, I though that I would be able to survive in this type of atmosphere... it seems that that is not the case.

Hmmmm, I dunno if an expose is the best way to go. A lawsuit might be more profitable.

How has Liberty U fared over the years in keeping their accreditation?

JAI

Toto · 02-02-2003, 02:45 PM

From Harding, p. 218:

Quote:

In the early 1980's, it came to the attention of the American Civil Liberties Union that students trained in creationism in LBC were teaching biology in public high schools. The ACLU filed a complaint with the Virginia Board of Education challenging the qualifications of Liberty graduates to teach biology. The collete responded by moving the teaching of creationism out of the biology department and into a new unit called the Center for Creation Studies. The letter of the law was abided in that creationism was no longer taught to students in biology classes. However, now all students were required to take a course in creation studies taught by biology professors at the new center.

Falwell had to sell this to his more fundamentalist supporters, who thought that there should be no compromise with the VBE. The result is that people who study creationism can be qualified to teach biology in public schools.

(You can read one of the objectors here :

Quote:

What do many modern day Fundamentalist Baptist preachers and teachers have in common with many in the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod of almost thirty years ago? Both groups have left, departed, abandoned, forsaken, and disowned, the faith principle upon which the forefathers of their fellowships based the necessity of their fellowship in favor of a set of purely naturalistic, humanistic principles. It matters little of the doctrinal differences between the two groups if the faith principle regarding The Foundation of True Faith, God's Holy Word is violated. For both groups will further slide back into the dark and murderous shadows of the authority of the Harlot of Rome, or some other pantheon of gods, when they leave The Authority of God's Holy Word, Which promises to be our all sufficiency in matters of Bible Doctrine.[Note4]

If that sounds too radical, consider that once featured fundamental Baptist speaker and icon, Jerry Falwell, in order to gain accreditation, ceased teaching Creationism some years ago as a science at Liberty University (formerly Liberty Baptist University). Although that is old news, the real news is that as time has gone on, Dr. Falwell has slid further and further into a liberalizing, compromising, neoevangelical, and even ecumenical position.[Note5] What is at issue in this forum is that Dr. Falwell had to consciously leave a Biblical position on the nature of God in relation to God and His Creation to do what he did. . . . Leaving the faith principle in the one area has led to a very slippery slope for Liberty University. Whether he left the faith principle for reasons of conviction or for economic expedience, or some other reason is not as important as the fact that he did, indeed, depart from the faith in this area. Also, leaving the faith principle in the area of Bible textualism and translation has led to many areas of compromise an apostasy within the fundamentalist Christian community of churches and para-church organizations. This can only lead down a steep and slippery slope to full apostasy.

and here

02-02-2003, 09:43 AM	#1
debater10 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lynchburg, VA, USA Posts: 106	Activism in "The Lion's Den" I never intended to be an activist for my non-belief. I applied to and am now attending Liberty University (a.k.a. Liberty Baptist College, a.k.a. Jerry Falwell University... you get the idea). It was a financial reasons that drove me to accept the university's offer, but I quickly came to realize that it may not have been worth it. After about two months, EVERYONE knew that I was an athiest. I had assumed that there may be others, but I was wrong. To the best of my knowledge, I am the Athiest at Liberty. I was considering leaving even befroe the first semester, and though I may not be here next year, I have decided to use my time here to both learn and teach. Everyone here is willing to get into a theological discussion. A select few are able to give intelligent arguments, but for most of the people here, they have come to their beliefs because it was what their parents believed. I am learning the arguments adn spending my free time researching and finding answers and responses. But my position is not an entirely passive one. I do what I can to spread th truth on campus... this is somewhat difficult because of the regulations in force, but I make do how I can. Some that I have talked to are coming to see the truth, and others adamantly refuse to open their eyes. Perhaps most importantly, though, the message of the truth of atheism is being spread on this indoctrinated campus... teachers take cheap shots at my theology in class, but I am ready to respond. When I leave this place, I hope only that I have offered the truth in a way that most of the students have never heard... in a way that actually challenges all that they are being told is right. It gets tiring, though, which is why I have taken to the internet... to know that there are people who agree with me.

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02-02-2003, 09:50 AM	#2
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	Yeesh. Why are you wasting your time at a university with such an awful, worthless reputation? A degree from Liberty is not going to be particularly helpful in getting a secular job after you graduate, and personally, I am extremely dubious about the quality of the education you can get at a place propped up by a philosophical worldview that is so opposed to learning. Take the credits you've earned so far and transfer elsewhere, anywhere else, as quick as you can!

02-02-2003, 10:12 AM	#3
debater10 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lynchburg, VA, USA Posts: 106	That's my hope. I have to finish out the year here... one of the scholarships I'm getting demanded that I do so. Hopefully, I will be transferring into James Madison University or the University of Delaware. But in all reality, I could transfer into a low-rate community college and get more of an education. Just to give you an idea of the kind of thing that goes on here, in one of my classes, "Juvenile Justice," the teacher REFUSED to teach anything that dealt with mental disorders and their impact on juvenile prosecutions. Her justification? There is no biblical basis for them, therefore, things like ADD, Bipolar disorders, Turrets, they don't even exist. She says that they are things that the secular world made up to avoid responsibility for its sinfull way. What gets me is that she wouldn't even TALK about the issue. I would not be so angry if she presented the issue, and then talked about why she disagreed with it. But how does she think she is preparing her students for the REAL WORLD if she just ignores whatever she has personal issues with? www.geocities.com/liberty_truth/ Some of the articles on this site should be interesting...

02-02-2003, 10:41 AM	#4
Psycho Economist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 854	I hope, for your sake, that site is not published by you. While everything on it may be true (can the author document that L.U. is really run by demons?), big religious groups tend to get very upset when negative things are said about them. Interested citizens who've tried to expose groups like Scientology (the textbook example) have been the objects of incessant lawsuits... if they can't get defamation charges to stick, they'll move onto copyright violation, and whatever else they can imagine to bring before a court. My totally non-lawerly advice to whoever is the author/publisher: retain an attorney or keep under their radar... preferably both.

02-02-2003, 11:18 AM	#5
Grad Student Humanist Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melrose, MA Posts: 961	While I sympathize with your current plight, what the hell did you expect would happen when you enrolled in a school whose main goal isn't education, rather indoctrination? Get the hell out of there as fast as you can. You could get a better education at just about any state school and it would be more valuable in the secular job market too.

02-02-2003, 11:22 AM	#6
debater10 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lynchburg, VA, USA Posts: 106	They don't tell the truth to the people who think about coming to the university... For example, the information they sent me talked about Convocation that was held three times per week. It described it as a "forum for the discussion of important issues of the day." In reality, it is mandatory church three times per week. They also do not send the prospective strudents copies of the "Liberty Way" (the rules that we have to follow here). I could not request a copy of them until I had already decided that that is where I wanted to go. To be honest, with both of my parents working at the church, I though that I would be able to survive in this type of atmosphere... it seems that that is not the case.

02-02-2003, 11:24 AM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	What can I say? I hope you are keeping notes for the expose you are going to write after you leave. I recently read this book: The Book of Jerry Falwell: Fundamentalist Language and Politics by Susan Friend Harding (I started a thread on it here , but got involved in other issues.) The book gave some new perspectives on Falwell for me, but I couldn't tell if the author was too sympathetic, or just too post-modern. If you get a chance to read it, I would be interested in your comments. In any case, best of luck to you.

02-02-2003, 12:13 PM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	One reason there may be such a disconnect between the published propaganda for Libery U and the actual course content and requirements, is that Falwell tried to put a modern secular face on his university for various purposes of accreditation, so his graduates could get into other universities and professional schools. The book I referenced goes into this. Keep notes for that expose.

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