Freethought & Rationalism Archive

FrostFire · 10-22-2002, 08:37 AM

How can intelligence be created, in essences I would think that if intelligence was created then it would be a mirror image of what the created wanted it to be and it would be bound to think what the creator wanted it to think, so in that if God created are intelligence all we would be is Artificial Intelligences, not the real deal then wouldn’t that rule out free will? Now I believe the body can evolve but how can intelligence evolve, how can are brains grow from being nothing to full thinking humans that can build airplanes. Now I know this didn't happen over night but it seems far-fetched. Perhaps maybe are intelligences didn't evolve only are bodies and when are bodies were fully evolved are intelligences entered them. Am I making any sense? I would like to better understand the concept of intelligence and how they might evolve or if they do. As of yet I think all intelligences can do it learn but not evolve.

Thanks for reading!

Coragyps · 10-22-2002, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Am I making any sense?

Unfortunately, no. Type a little slower.

pz · 10-22-2002, 08:51 AM

Quote:

<strong>Am I making any sense?</strong>

No.

FrostFire · 10-22-2002, 08:54 AM

Hm... I will put this very simple

How can intelligence evolve?

Oolon Colluphid · 10-22-2002, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FrostFire:
<strong>Hm... I will put this very simple

How can intelligence evolve?</strong>

Same as anything else: gradually and cumulatively, building step by step on previous generations by slight improvements. Care to define the intelligence you have in mind?

Cheers, Oolon

Doubting Didymus · 10-22-2002, 03:49 PM

Do you mean intelligence in the sense that dogs are intelligent, but insects are not? Or is it the sense that apes, elephants and dolphins are intelligent, but dogs are not? Or is it the sense that ordinary educated humans are intelligent, but apes, etc are not? Or is it the sense that ordinary educated humans are intelligent, but creationists are not?

Pardon the small and humble joke, but seriously, you need to define where you set the intelligent/not intelligent boundary.

FrostFire · 10-22-2002, 08:51 PM

Intelligence as a presence, anything that can think has intelligence.

Now, intelligence can gradually just come to be? I find this hard to believe, I believe you can learn but how can an intelligence just slowly come to be? So a personality evolves to?

Doubting Didymus · 10-22-2002, 09:00 PM

Anything that can think is intelligent? I agree with you I suppose, but then why do you find it hard to imagine a gradual progression?

Fish are surely slightly more 'aware' than insects, dogs have a more sophisticated awareness than fish, and are capable of rote learning, dolphins blitz dogs in the intelligence stakes, and apes in turn blitz dolphins.

Now, consider for yourself how similar our minds are to ape minds, and ask yourself honestly: how wide is that gap?

Doubting Didymus · 10-22-2002, 09:03 PM

As for personalities, they are formed afresh with each new individual, so they do not 'evolve' in that sense. However, at least some of what goes into making a personality is inherited from your parents, and will pass on to your children, so personalities can evolve over many generations.

FrostFire · 10-22-2002, 09:12 PM

Makes sense, now I suppose I will have to do a bit of researching to clear up everything for myself

10-22-2002, 08:37 AM	#1
FrostFire Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 5	Question about evolution How can intelligence be created, in essences I would think that if intelligence was created then it would be a mirror image of what the created wanted it to be and it would be bound to think what the creator wanted it to think, so in that if God created are intelligence all we would be is Artificial Intelligences, not the real deal then wouldn’t that rule out free will? Now I believe the body can evolve but how can intelligence evolve, how can are brains grow from being nothing to full thinking humans that can build airplanes. Now I know this didn't happen over night but it seems far-fetched. Perhaps maybe are intelligences didn't evolve only are bodies and when are bodies were fully evolved are intelligences entered them. Am I making any sense? I would like to better understand the concept of intelligence and how they might evolve or if they do. As of yet I think all intelligences can do it learn but not evolve. Thanks for reading!

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10-22-2002, 08:54 AM	#4
FrostFire Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 5	Hm... I will put this very simple How can intelligence evolve?

10-22-2002, 03:49 PM	#6
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Do you mean intelligence in the sense that dogs are intelligent, but insects are not? Or is it the sense that apes, elephants and dolphins are intelligent, but dogs are not? Or is it the sense that ordinary educated humans are intelligent, but apes, etc are not? Or is it the sense that ordinary educated humans are intelligent, but creationists are not? Pardon the small and humble joke, but seriously, you need to define where you set the intelligent/not intelligent boundary.

10-22-2002, 08:51 PM	#7
FrostFire Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 5	Intelligence as a presence, anything that can think has intelligence. Now, intelligence can gradually just come to be? I find this hard to believe, I believe you can learn but how can an intelligence just slowly come to be? So a personality evolves to?

10-22-2002, 09:00 PM	#8
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Anything that can think is intelligent? I agree with you I suppose, but then why do you find it hard to imagine a gradual progression? Fish are surely slightly more 'aware' than insects, dogs have a more sophisticated awareness than fish, and are capable of rote learning, dolphins blitz dogs in the intelligence stakes, and apes in turn blitz dolphins. Now, consider for yourself how similar our minds are to ape minds, and ask yourself honestly: how wide is that gap?

10-22-2002, 09:03 PM	#9
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	As for personalities, they are formed afresh with each new individual, so they do not 'evolve' in that sense. However, at least some of what goes into making a personality is inherited from your parents, and will pass on to your children, so personalities can evolve over many generations.

10-22-2002, 09:12 PM	#10
FrostFire Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 5	Makes sense, now I suppose I will have to do a bit of researching to clear up everything for myself

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