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Old 05-26-2003, 08:28 PM   #1
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Default Legacy

I don't know if/to what extent this topic has been brought up before, but it's starting to become a concern:

How is an atheist/agnostic supposed to rectify not believing in any post-death cost or benefit with doing things whose results will only manifest themselves after death?

For example, why would an old atheist recycle his trash, if the benefits of recycling will only manifest themselves after his death?
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Old 05-26-2003, 09:41 PM   #2
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How do many Christians, Muslims and Jews deal with it?

After all, they don't beleive they'll actually be on the earth to deal with the fruits of their actions, do they?

Some reincarnationists may, and bully for them if they think they're leaving the room tidy because they'll be coming back to it.

For an atheist like myself, the answer is similar to the answer to why I do many things.
Why educate my child?
Why try and make a difference in the world of thought and belief?
Why try to do my bit in containing our efforts to trash the environment?

Because I'm of the human race, and the human race is all the immortality I'll ever know.So I'd like to ensure that it does carry on after I'm gone.
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Old 05-28-2003, 12:25 AM   #3
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who am i to come into a place thats not mine (the world), trash it, the leave the mess never come back?! seems a bit rude to me....
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:14 AM   #4
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I try to live by the maxim "Leave every room better than you enter it". Same idea applies.
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Old 05-28-2003, 07:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: Legacy

Quote:
Originally posted by anonymite
I don't know if/to what extent this topic has been brought up before, but it's starting to become a concern:

How is an atheist/agnostic supposed to rectify not believing in any post-death cost or benefit with doing things whose results will only manifest themselves after death?

For example, why would an old atheist recycle his trash, if the benefits of recycling will only manifest themselves after his death?
Why not? It gives many a good feeling to have done something positive for the 'natural' world. That's certainly the reason why most people give to charity, I'm sure. Surely compassion and goodwill can reach beyond what will directly benefit the benefactor within their lifetime? There is, after all, a rational explanation of altruism, isn't there?
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re: Legacy

Quote:
Originally posted by Max Demian
Why not? It gives many a good feeling to have done something positive for the 'natural' world. That's certainly the reason why most people give to charity, I'm sure. Surely compassion and goodwill can reach beyond what will directly benefit the benefactor within their lifetime? There is, after all, a rational explanation of altruism, isn't there?
There is? That's basically what I'm trying to get at. If people are motivated into action by [the preception of] cost and benefit, what motivates someone to action whose benefit lies outside the scope of his existence?

This applies to everyone, but especially atheists, because you can't use the "God likes it" explanation.
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:45 PM   #7
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Arrow Some think there is ...

Quote:
Originally posted by anonymite
There is? That's basically what I'm trying to get at. If people are motivated into action by [the preception of] cost and benefit, what motivates someone to action whose benefit lies outside the scope of his existence?

This applies to everyone, but especially atheists, because you can't use the "God likes it" explanation.
Here is an interesting article on The Fallacies of Egoism and Altruism. Here is an article on altruism as a whole (the fact that it is from a Catholic website is largely irrelevant for the first part of the article).

Below is a quoted excerpt from the above article on altruism, namely Auguste Comte's ethical theory:

Quote:
The dominion of feeling over thought is the normative principle of human conduct, for it is the affective impulses that govern the individual and the race.

Man is under the influence of two affective impulses, the personal or egoistic, and the social or altruistic.

A just balance between these two is not possible, one or other must preponderate.

The first condition of individual and social well-being is the subordination of self-love to the benevolent impulses.

The first principle of morality, therefore, is the regulative supremacy of social sympathy over the self-regarding instincts.
Here is an article on the evolution of altruism, and here is a biological definition of altruism. An excerpt:

Quote:
In biology, altruism has a purely descriptive economic meaning: the active donation of resources to one or more individuals at cost to the donor. Moral values or conscious motivations are not implied, and the ideas are as applicable to plants as to animals. Four evolutionary causes of altruism will be considered here: kin selection, reciprocation, manipulation, and group selection. Each implies demonstrably different patterns for what individuals donate what resources to whom and under what circumstances and may suggest different motivational and emotional experiences by both donor and recipient.
That said, below are some links to some more articles of a secular and scientific nature.

Memetics and altruism
Reciprocal sharing and the evolution of altruism
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Old 05-28-2003, 05:08 PM   #8
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Wow I never thought of that. Screw recycling. Thanks anonymite!
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