Freethought & Rationalism Archive

World's Youngest Atheist · 03-05-2002, 02:28 PM

Last night, I was arguing with my (75% converted to atheism, thanks to yours truly)dad that if you look back in history, most of the smart people were atheists. I gave the examples of Carl Sagan, Arthur C. Clarke, Mark Twain and Stephen Hawking (not sure on that one, but there's no way a man as smart as him believes in "gawd").
Dad then told me that Einstein was a Christian. This can't be true. If it is, Einstein's lost all respect in my mind. No way a man that smart would fall for that bullshit.
I'm researching it now. Place your bets!

- Youngest

Kosh · 03-05-2002, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by World's Youngest Atheist:
<strong>Last night, I was arguing with my (75% converted to atheism, thanks to yours truly)dad that if you look back in history, most of the smart people were atheists. I gave the examples of Carl Sagan, Arthur C. Clarke, Mark Twain and Stephen Hawking (not sure on that one, but there's no way a man as smart as him believes in "gawd").
Dad then told me that Einstein was a Christian. This can't be true. If it is, Einstein's lost all respect in my mind. No way a man that smart would fall for that bullshit.
I'm researching it now. Place your bets!

- Youngest</strong>

Damn. I always thought he was Jewish...

<a href="http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/einstein.htm" target="_blank">http://members.aol.com/Heraklit1/einstein.htm</a>

Corwin · 03-05-2002, 02:53 PM

Einstein was an ethnic jew that rejected the idea of a personal God, and as far as I can tell rejected most ideas of 'God' in any specific sense. His concept of God was of a very impersonal sense of awe at the universe.

<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm</a>

Nice list of Einstein quotes there.

cjr1851 · 03-05-2002, 02:53 PM

World's Youngest, (I can't tell if you're joking but if not) No Einstien was a German Jew. He left Gernmany before the holocaust and wisely decided to make America his home. In the 1950's he was actually offered the job of President/Prime Minister of Israel which he (even more wisely) turned down.

There's heaps of stuff on the internet to read about him - have fun.

cjr

Karen M · 03-05-2002, 02:55 PM

Hello WYA

First of all, from most of what I see, Einstien was either Pantheistic or Deistic. Second, if Einstien did hold to one of the monotheistic religions it would most certianly have been Jewish. He came from Jewish heritage and he even had to run from Germany to avoid Hitler.

"If my theory of relativity is proven successful, Germany will claim me as a German and France will declare that I am a citizen of the world. Should my theory prove untrue, France will say I am a German and Germany will declare that I am a Jew."--Albert Einstein

Whoops...2 more posts appeared as I was writing this so now it seems a bit redundant...

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]</p>

Toto · 03-05-2002, 02:56 PM

Einstein was definitely not a Christian. He did like to use the word "God" a lot (as in "God does not play dice") but he was using God as a playful metaphor for the laws of the universe.

The definitive URL is <a href="http://www.skeptic.com/archives50.html" target="_blank">Einstein's God: Just What Did Einstein Believe About God?</a> by Michael R. Gilmore.

Quote:

Just over a century ago, near the beginning of his intellectual life, the young Albert Einstein became a skeptic. He states so on the first page of his Autobiographical Notes (1949, pp. 3-5): "Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. ..."

* * *

Many are aware that Einstein was not religious in the conventional sense, but it will come as a surprise to some to learn that Einstein clearly identified himself as an atheist and as an agnostic.

* * *

Einstein's "belief" in Spinoza's God is one of his most widely quoted statements. But quoted out of context, like so many of these statements, it is misleading at best. It all started when Boston's Cardinal O'Connel attacked Einstein and the General Theory of Relativity and warned the youth that the theory "cloaked the ghastly apparition of atheism" and "befogged speculation, producing universal doubt about God and His creation"(Clark, 1971, 413-414). Einstein had already experienced heavier duty attacks against his theory in the form of anti-Semitic mass meetings in Germany, and he initially ignored the Cardinal's attack. Shortly thereafter though, on April 24, 1929, Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of New York cabled Einstein to ask: "Do you believe in God?"(Sommerfeld, 1949, 103). Einstein's return message is the famous statement: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings"( 103).

Gilmore quotes from a private letter that Einstein wrote:

Quote:

"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."

cjr1851 · 03-05-2002, 02:57 PM

PS: Keep working on your dad. Sounds like you're doing a good job!

World's Youngest Atheist · 03-05-2002, 03:01 PM

Quote:

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts." - Albert Einstein

Quote:

It is thus clear that when Albert said the word "God" he was not referring to the God as depicted in the Bible, but to something like "rationality in the universe." Albert's definition of "God" was "a deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe . . ."

Compare this with the Bible definition of "God" : Father, Creator, Judge, Lawgiver and Saviour. As to his denial of life after death, Albert had to reject the life, miracles, words, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus. There is no way the definition which Albert attaches to the word "God" can be harmonised with the definition which the Bible attaches to it. This, logically, leads us to the conclusion that, despite his intelligence and outstanding achievements, Einstein could not have found what the Bible calls a "saving faith".

It is therefore incorrect for Christians, as they sometimes do, to claim that Einstein was a Christian, since the definition which he attached to the word "God" was at complete variance to that which the Bible uses. One cannot have it both ways.

<a href="http://christianessays.freeservers.com/einstein.htm" target="_blank">http://christianessays.freeservers.com/einstein.htm</a>

- Youngest

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: World's Youngest Atheist ]</p>

MadKally · 03-05-2002, 03:08 PM

Quote:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

missus_gumby · 03-05-2002, 03:32 PM

"Einstein was once asked -- to settle an argument -- whether he believed in God. He replied that he believed in Spinoza's God’. Since for Spinoza the words 'God' and 'Nature' were synonymous Einstein was, in the eyes of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, unequivocally an atheist." - from Albert Einstein: Philosopher Scientist, Harper Torchbooks, Vol. 1,1959 page 103.

03-05-2002, 02:28 PM	#1
World's Youngest Atheist Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 79	Was Einstein a Xian? Last night, I was arguing with my (75% converted to atheism, thanks to yours truly)dad that if you look back in history, most of the smart people were atheists. I gave the examples of Carl Sagan, Arthur C. Clarke, Mark Twain and Stephen Hawking (not sure on that one, but there's no way a man as smart as him believes in "gawd"). Dad then told me that Einstein was a Christian. This can't be true. If it is, Einstein's lost all respect in my mind. No way a man that smart would fall for that bullshit. I'm researching it now. Place your bets! - Youngest

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03-05-2002, 02:53 PM	#3
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Einstein was an ethnic jew that rejected the idea of a personal God, and as far as I can tell rejected most ideas of 'God' in any specific sense. His concept of God was of a very impersonal sense of awe at the universe. <a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/qframe.htm</a> Nice list of Einstein quotes there.

03-05-2002, 02:53 PM	#4
cjr1851 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: UK Posts: 69	World's Youngest, (I can't tell if you're joking but if not) No Einstien was a German Jew. He left Gernmany before the holocaust and wisely decided to make America his home. In the 1950's he was actually offered the job of President/Prime Minister of Israel which he (even more wisely) turned down. There's heaps of stuff on the internet to read about him - have fun. cjr

03-05-2002, 02:55 PM	#5
Karen M Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 235	Hello WYA First of all, from most of what I see, Einstien was either Pantheistic or Deistic. Second, if Einstien did hold to one of the monotheistic religions it would most certianly have been Jewish. He came from Jewish heritage and he even had to run from Germany to avoid Hitler. "If my theory of relativity is proven successful, Germany will claim me as a German and France will declare that I am a citizen of the world. Should my theory prove untrue, France will say I am a German and Germany will declare that I am a Jew."--Albert Einstein Whoops...2 more posts appeared as I was writing this so now it seems a bit redundant... [ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]</p>

03-05-2002, 02:57 PM	#7
cjr1851 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: UK Posts: 69	PS: Keep working on your dad. Sounds like you're doing a good job!

03-05-2002, 03:32 PM	#10
missus_gumby Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: UK Posts: 1,898	"Einstein was once asked -- to settle an argument -- whether he believed in God. He replied that he believed in Spinoza's God’. Since for Spinoza the words 'God' and 'Nature' were synonymous Einstein was, in the eyes of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, unequivocally an atheist." - from Albert Einstein: Philosopher Scientist, Harper Torchbooks, Vol. 1,1959 page 103.

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