Deadat60

Not sure this goes here, but since a large number of christians I know consider this topic as religious truth, I figured it could be a religious discussion, well if people want to discuss.

Ok, so while in therapy yesterday we got into the delusions of religion and the childlike state that is discussed as being so full of faith. Meaning, I vaguely recall something about being like little children in faith . . . something like that, I’m sure there are plenty that can clarify that scripture for me. But this is what I was thinking, children have no concept of god, in fact I would dare say that all people are born atheists and as others beliefs are inflicted upon us the idea of deity is one of the first things a lot of us are taught, thus loosing our true and atheistic origins and being saturated with the idea of deity.

So I was thinking that the reference to becoming like a child would in fact mean to get rid of our faith and realize there is no god. And by those definitions, those not believing in a deity are more child-like and pure than those believing in a deity?

Not sure if this constitutes any discussion or maybe just a lot of comments suggesting I not share the person insight if find in therapy. My shrink says I better come back, but I’m starting to think he has more problems than I do.

But, enjoy this or hate this, I just felt like sharing in a forum where I would not be banned for saying the word atheist, or insinuating that atheists are purer than theists.

Llyricist

I could be wrong, but I think the child-like faith is more an anology to a child's faith in their parents than a direct statement that children's natural state is to have faith in god.

That is, have faith in "your ffather above" as a child would have faith in his father (more likely mother) down here.

Mageth

I personally think the idea that children are born atheists is a bit overdone. Children are born pretty much as blank slates, with no opinions or beliefs on anything, nor any way to form opinions or beliefs, until they grow up a bit. Calling them atheists is a bit of a stretch.

Children are naturally imaginative and inventive, and tend to, early on, believe in what they are told is true - Santa, God, etc. They also seem to naturally believe in some things without being told - monsters in the closet, imaginary friends, etc. Children also need protection, care and nurture from adults (human infants, in comparison to most other animals, are born way early), typically pretty much round the clock until they are about 12.

I think of theism (in the sky-daddy form) as a failure to grow up, to grow out of the need for the protection, care and comfort required as a child, a failure to grow up and be an independent, self-reliant human, to realize one's self and one's own potential, and to grow out of belief in imaginary friends and monsters in the closet.

Therefore, I think of atheism as growing up, becoming less childlike, recognizing and realizing one's potential as an adult human, leaving behind make-believe, and accepting the necessity of making one's own way in the world.

That's my thought on the subject, anyhow.

Nowhere357

I've heard that a main or common reason people pursue a career in psychiatry is due to an awareness of their own mental instabilities.

Anyway, I think your quote above is great!

njhartsh

That's an easy pick-up!

I'm confident that these are the verses you're looking for:

To which Robert G. Ingersoll famously replied:
And Richard Dawkins added:
- Nathan

tribalbeeyatch

It is perhaps overdone, but I don't see how it is "a bit of a stretch" (not even the slightest bit). You've basically already supplied the argument for it: children are blank slates, they lack opinions and beliefs -- hence they are atheists.

Mageth

Atheists aren't blank slates that lack opinions or beliefs, or the ability to form opinions and beliefs. Newborns have no conception of god(s) at all to believe or lack belief in. I'm an atheist, I've examined the evidence, and, since the evidence is not compelling, lack belief in god(s). For some gods, like the typical Christian god (if there is such a thing), the arguments and evidence against them are so compelling that I know they don't exist. A newborn is incapable of that.

tribalbeeyatch

All of which is irrelevant. That infants are incapable of holding a belief in god(s) makes their atheism trivial in my opinion, but their classification as atheists is accurate nonetheless.

Demigawd

Sounds more like agnosticism than atheism to me.

-Demigawd the Eternal Child

Deacon Doubtmonger

It turns out someone in the enemy camp holds this to be true. Paul C. Vitz, a born-again Christian psychologist and former atheist, wrote a book called *Faith of the Fatherless: the Psychology of Atheism,* in which he holds that people become "militant atheists" [ain't THAT the oxymoron! When's the last time WE staged a pogrom, Crusade or Inquisition???] as a result of having weak, absent, abusive or otherwise ineffective fathers.

Great -- so if Daddy spanks me on a regular basis, and maybe even follows James Dobson's *Dare to Discipline* guidelines on how to effectively inflict physical pain, and cuts down any question or objection with a Bible verse, I'll just "naturally" (and rightly!) gravitate toward a Godly [DOUBTMONGER'S THESAURUS: abject, self-abasing, craven, timorous] life?

On that note I must heartily recommend a *magnificent* article whose author shows how the God/worshipper relationship EXACTLY parallels that of abuser/victim (though it deals with abused women, it's no leap to see how it applies to children as well):

http://www.losingmyreligion.com/articlesf/abuse.html

Deacon Doubtmonger

INTERVIEWER (asking if her guest would do it over again): You wouldn't want to be a Christian?

JESUS: No, I would not want to be a member of any group whose symbol is a man nailed onto two pieces of wood -- especially if it's me! Buddha's laughin' -- I'm on the cross!

--George Carlin